Is its 'effectiveness' the only thing that worries you about waterboarding SH. ? I suggest you read up on this - it's very easy you just google it. It was used also in the Spanish Inquisition and is very 'effective' if that is the only criteria you can bring to bear on such barbarism.
The issues is not about effectiveness surely? Torture is torture and is inhumane in a civilised society..... or do you disagree?
If the US generals disagree on the effectiveness of waterboarding then there is no way I would ever know. I only comment on things I know something about and subjects I have interest in. I repeat, waterboarding will not be a subject in many people's minds when they vote in Stoke.
So, in other words you believe in the use of torture. I had thought, up to now, that you were only a right winger - but now the picture is complete.
Think on this SH...... not a lot separates us from the beast...... but our human values have got us to where we are today.........................
Corbyn has made things much clearer today. The Labour Party will insist its MP's vote to invoke article 50 even if all of their proposed amendments fail. Whatever happens the LP will support the government in the vote.
Still not responding to the torture comments above SH? You have a big habit of making comments and then ignoring people's responses...
He will not respond Yorkie - we know his opinion on this, and it is not the opinion any human being could have (whether right or left) - he has just alligned himself to every petty dictator in this World, to every torturer, murderer, and is, no longer, of our World. I will not be insulting myself by communicating with him from now on.
A question I saw posed yesterday was this. Someone has taken your child and has strapped a bomb to it in a warehouse somewhere. You have come across that person and have them restrained. You have one hour till detonation. The kidnapper will only tell you the location of the child in time if you torture him. What do you do?
We are not talking about your child Leo. We are talking about people who are paid to torture others. Paid by a system to torture its enemies - to execute power in the most horrible way over a defenceless victim. An act no fully developed human being could do. Would you ask someone else to do this, and place another, defenceless, in their power ? There are also others who make and design the instruments of torture - those perverted minds who also judge it only by its effectiveness. I realise that you are arguing a counter position here for the sake of it - would you do it ? You, a confessed pacifist, then don't ask anyone else to do it. I have indicated that, up to now, we have been debating simply one political position against another, with other people who I classified as human beings - but that is no longer the case with one poster on here. If you wish to go on defending him in this way - because we need a token right winger to make it look better, then think again - we are not operating a quota system here.
You will not know if the kidnapper is telling you the truth no matter what you do him. It has often been shown that you will get misleading information that can put even more lives at risk.
That question was torn apart the other day by an article in the Guardian. Edit: https://www.theguardian.com/science...-time-bomb-terrorist-trump-lee-hurst-comedian
Leo, imagine the Nice truck murderer (or the Paris massacre mastermind) was taken alive and the police suspected further atrocities. Information was needed a.s.a.p. to save more lives. How much 'extreme interrogation' of the suspects would your morals allow?. In the case of the Nice murderer there would be no doubt to his guilt if he was pulled out of the cab. I know anger is no justification but any police looking back down the road at children with their heads squashed. Not so easy is it.
There is NO evidence that torture leads to valuable information. Nothing. All these make-believe scenarios to torture people who may or may not be guilty of a crime is absolutely disgusting. How anyone can condone it is beyond me. And calling evil people 'scum' is out of order
Hang on hang on Cologne - we are not talking about MY child. we are not talking about me. My answer is I would not torture anyone anytime for any reason - please keep this non personal. It is a valid question somebody raised on TV yesterday. I would like to know what posters on here would so in those extreme circumstances. I am not arguing a counter position for the sake of it. This is a moral question and morality needs to be thought about and not subject to knee jerk reactions - the question is what would people do?They may say - yes if it were really personal I would do it - but would not as a country etc etc. I object to you saying I am defending anyone - I am not. I pose a question posed yesterday on TV. Now you call SH non human. I am sorry but this is why I am concerned about this board. We seem unable to accept differences of views. I am aware that my response to you risks me losing the support of one person who has supported me and heaven forfend I am not here to defend anyone else. Two people have told SH he must answer your question. Why should he? When did they get to tell him what to do or how to think? He is an adult - does he have to answer a question if he chooses not to?
