Nationalism repulses me. Racism repulses me. Inequality repulses me. I wasn't calling Tory supporters scum, everyone has a right to an opinion, however wrong it may be. The current Tory lot are the nastiest and most self serving politicians I've ever experienced in my life. Austerity was a scam, used to crush the poor whilst giving tax cuts to the rich. The NHS is being wound down. Immigrants are being scapegoated. Brexit. Education budgets are falling with an increasing population. Green measures have been scrapped. The few remaining state-owned assets are being sold off as fast as possible. The solution to it all from our government's point of view? Sell out to China and the US and give the rich more tax cuts, whilst cutting more services and kicking people out onto the street. Watch the arms industry boom now that we're free of EU rules about selling arms to dodgy countries. They are self-serving scum, and honestly scum is a polite way of putting it.
How can you say that? In my lifetime I've only experienced the Tory-lite Blair/Brown government, but compared to the current lot they were hippies, and the economy boomed. please log in to view this image The Tories have just trashed the economy, just wait til inflation kicks in this year. Blair brought in the minimum wage and tax credits, without which a huge percentage of the country would be screwed. Maybe back in the day they did, I doubt even JC could do as much damage as Brexit has caused. And at least he wouldn't be helping his mates get richer whilst doing it, he'd be doing it with the aim of improving everyone's lives.
Previously you had not called anyone scum but you have now nailed your colours to the mast. I understand certain "isms" repulse people - I too am repulsed by sexism, racism etc. But I am never repulsed by a human being. We differ. I am repulsed by your use of the term to describe a person. I also disagree with your political analysis - but that is fair game for debate and we all form opinions on what is good, what is bad etc. You seem though to have a god-like ability to see the motives behind people political beliefs. I would wish I had that too - until I realise it leads to the path of calling human beings scum.
I'm not as offended by the English language as you seem to be, and I have a different set of values. Would you call someone that spat on a disabled person in the street scum? Would you call someone that stole money of a single mother scum?
I have lived far longer than you and personally witnessed every Labour government end its term in fiancial disaster. 2008 was on the Labour watch. Still this is more for the political thread than the Trump one. Had Corbyn properly supported Remain we would not have Brexit. The Tories called the referendum - Labour delivered the result.
Corbyn did support Remain, he said so several times. He was allowed doubts about the EU, and at least he was honest, but he was a Remain supporter. Our current PM was meant to be, but she hid during the referendum as she sensed she had a chance to be PM. Blaming JC for Brexit is typical of what the poor guy suffers on a weekly basis. And blaming the Labour party for the 2008 crash? Really? This was put to bed a long time ago. If the Tories were in power it would have been much worse. Prior to the crash they were advocating more deregulation on the banks to avoid a crash.
It is not the English language that offends me. It is the nasty mindset behind the language. No I would not call anybody scum. People are not scum - some of their actions are and I would regard those as offensive. Single mothers are another subject entirely. Why do you assume that stealing from them is worse than stealing from any other person? You seem to have double standards - I respect people as people.
Jeremy Corbyn as leader of Labour should have been at the spearhead of Remain. He was not. Nobody outside of his entourage and Momentum believe he campaigned effectively. As a result Labour voters were unsure of Labour's stance. Many interviews and polls have confirmed that. Theresa May's role at the time was one of just any other Tory. She was not leader then. Corbyn delivered brexit.
No, those were just extreme examples. How much exposure do you have to the current lives of people living on the breadline? Have you been to a squat? Do you often speak to young people whose futures have been trashed? Had their benefits inexplicably cut? I don't have as much faith in mankind as you do.
Why should he have been the spearhead? His party didn't create Brexit. Cameron is to blame for Brexit. How you can blame JC baffles me.
The people to blame for Brexit is the majority of voters that wanted Brexit and are very pleased at the current progress. Blame should also be put on Merkel and the EU officials that were unwilling to recognise the UK had a particular problem with immigration. Areas which are most affected by uncontrolled immigration clearly voted leave. It was traditional Labour voters which made the difference by voting leave so blaming Cameron for giving a choice to the people is way off the mark.
Very often people don't think too deeply before using words such as 'scum', Fascist, Nazi etc. They just roll from the tongue to describe things which we see as distastefull. A certain poster on here used to refer to everyone left of Attila the Hun as being a 'Trot', yet, when challenged on providing some kind of understanding of what Trotsky believed, could not do so. 'Scum' is a thing which gathers at the top of barrels - nothing more. How many students have called policemen 'Fascist' or 'Nazi' scum at demos - I think I did at one time. A Fascist was a member of the party which ruled Italy in the 30s and 40s, nothing more. They believed in resurrecting the Roman empire. They believed that every society was separated into the 'natural' rulers, and the 'naturally' ruled. They also believed that the 'will to power' was the fundament moving force in each individual - and, that war was 'socially hygienic' because it forced the hero to the top of society - as an ideology it stressed an organic state and perpetual struggle. What it did not have was the racial/biological element of the Nazi ideology. History threw these 2 terms together but they were distinct, and not interchangeable - yet we use these 2 insults together, as if they were one and the same thing. We also call them the 'hard right' - another inaccuracy, because both were born 'on the left'. Both ideologies had a deep contempt for 'neo liberal Capitalism'. Hitler even described his party as the NSDAP (National Sozialist Deutsche Arbeiter Partei) - in other words, just add National to 'Socialist Workers Party'. Hitler thought that his party was 'on the left'. Yet we classify these 2 words as descriptions for the 'far right', why ? Far right, for me, means unrestrained free market capitalism - and far left means collective ownership (either by the state, or directly by the workers themselves) - but neither term has anything to do with race.
A somewhat disingenuous post if you don't mind me saying so. Some of us are well enough educated to know exactly what the precise meaning of each of those words are. However we are not talking about that - we are talking about abusing people. A pig is a lovely animal but when you call a person a pig it has another meaning.
OK - let me say where I put the "blame" (SH would say credit) for brexit. 1 The Tory press - led by multi-millionaire foreign magnates who opposed the EU and its prior incrnations and spent decades indoctrinating people and using false scare stories to denigrate it. 2 Xenophobic people. They supported the BNP and transmogrified into UKIP and gained some kind of legitimacy. 3 The Conservatives who for 30 years were a split party between those who liked the EU for how it helped business and those who opposed immigration. 4 Cameron for giving into the pressures he saw to Tory seats from the growth of UKIP 5 The EU for failing to realise that in the UK there was grave discontent with especially the EU immigration rules 6 Cameron for failing to effectively research and establish a fair referendum. 7 Brexit campaign managers who have admitted to shamelessly using lies and soundbites to win at all costs. 8 Corbyn for failing to lead the Labour Party effectively and make clear it was better for working people to stay inside the EU and reform from within. 9 The people who voted brexit
The mistakes that Cameron made were to call an unnecessary referendum for inner party reasons. Normally, political leaders offer people the choice between preserving the status quo, on the one hand, and initiating a change proposed by the government themselves - he set up a situation where every protest vote went against the government and resulted in the British Parliament having to bring in changes which they do not want. The initiators of that change were able to wash their hands of all responsibility.
I am not trying to insult you Leo. Most people would not know the precise meanings of these terms, which is why they use words like Fascist and Nazi for the same thing. I do not think that any politicians in Britain are 'pigs', 'scum', Fascists, Nazis or whatever - if they were, then what about their supporters on here ? People do not go into politics with the intention of getting rich through it (the rewards are not great enough for that), and if they had a love of power for its own sake then they could also have chosen a different path. When people go into politics they have ideals - but then they have to compromise those, one after the other, until there are very few left. Theresa May is just a normal woman who has been thrown in at the deep end to do a job which nobody else wants, to mop up other people's mistakes. She has to make a brave face of it - what else can she do ? She cannot look at the cameras and say ' What a cock up we've made, how do we get out of this'.
I did not take your comments as an insult - that is not something you do. What I mean is you focus on definitions of words. The point I am making is that it is wrong to abuse people. That is what happens when you call people Nazis, Fascists, Scum or anything else. I loathe the type of argument where instead of arguing for or against policies they instead use playground language to simply insult other, possible extremely intelligent, people. We have condemned one of our number for such behaviour but it seems we are reluctant to do the same to people of a different political persuasion. If you are happy to see debates on here conducted in terms where we call the people we do not support by vile names then that is your choice. I don't and I speak out against it.
They've been reported like that by right-leaning media, which the populace have lapped up as fact. What about the "selling off the family silver"? Tory governments selling things that didn't belong to them to finance tax cuts for those who didn't need them, whilst simultaneously jumping on the heads of the poor to help the rich (Robin Hood in reverse) creating massive divide between rich and poor. Toby's right that Tory-lite Blair also created an increased gap between rich and poor. The 2008 crash was a world-wide crash, principally caused by right-wing Amercian economy and over here by right-leaning freeing up of responsibilities of our banking sector. The fact it happened when Labour was at the helm is a lazy idea propagated by the right-wing press here. Do they blame the real cause which was right-wing politics in America? It's a causation/correlation issue. We could equally blame those born under the star-sign of the time of the crash. Damn Geminis!
Apparently you are missing everything. What we are discussing on the thread "trumpers" is donald and his government. A populist leader, with seemingly absolute power, issuing executive orders to the detriment of the society. A government full of multi multi millionaires bent on imposing corporate profit over any kind of social justice. A manipulative egotistical narcissist who will drive his country into the ground possibly leading to civil unrest in his country or even worse. The next step is to appoint two right wing religious judges to the SCOTUS. Then trump will have it all: the money, the Senate, Congress, and the justice system... all on a minority vote. The U.S.is turning slowly but surely into a racist, bigoted theocracy. If that is not fascist then you need to think again. They are vile, dangerous scum.
Any potential returning or new poster reading this morning's political content will firstly be amazed at the vitriolic language then quickly close down and find something better to do.
