Off Topic Politics Thread

[Beef]

Brexit didn't get Farage a seat in power did it? That is a stupid statement. Left/Liberal ignorance gave him the platform. It is the Tories that beat him in elections while Labour and the Dems are busy name calling.

It will be the Tories again in Stoke that stop UKIP scooping up all the lost labour votes to enable Labour to retain the seat by a small victory. Horrible nasty Tories, disgusting Tory people saving the ignorant left from UKIP getting in........again.

I never said labour or the Dems were any better. Infact Labour are worse because they have Corbyn whos seems to not give a **** about anything. Farage was front and centre on Brexit he got his spotlight by it going ahead. I like how you keep saying ignorant left, which many Trump supporters say.

I voted for what I thought was right for the future of my nephews and nieces and God daughter etc ( ordinary people the world over as well) . I take serious personal offence at your last comment , and will put you on my ignore list, which is a shame, because up until now you always seemed OK to me.

May you have the life I hope you deserve......... .

If you can't take a person telling you the bad side to what you voted for then you shouldn't vote for it. Like if I have a opinion others call out as being out of order I have to take it.

 

[HarryTipper]

Brexit didn't get Farage a seat in power did it? That is a stupid statement. Left/Liberal ignorance gave him the platform. It is the Tories that beat him in elections while Labour and the Dems are busy name calling.

It will be the Tories again in Stoke that stop UKIP scooping up all the lost labour votes to enable Labour to retain the seat by a small victory. Horrible nasty Tories, disgusting Tory people saving the ignorant left from UKIP getting in........again.

To be fair all of the major political groups are busy name calling so I don't think that's a valid comment or criticism.
It's also my biggest gripe with politics in general; far too much focus on opposition failings and not enough on their own party.

 

[The Ides of March]

This is a letter I wrote to the wonderful Southampton Itchen MP and at the bottom I attach his curt response. Please tell me what he does not like about the tone of my communication>

Dear Mr Smith

I am writing to you because you are a member of the UK Conservative Party. This party was known to be very pro-EU, which is something that many true Conservatives fully endorse.
If you are a true Conservative, like me, you would endorse continued membership of the EU. In addition, true Conservatives believe it would be advantageous to join the eurozone as it would benefit our economy and mean that the UK currency is not constantly exposed to the winds of change that blow through the financial markets of the world, and subsequently harms our economy.

True Consevatives would not follow the agenda as set by UKIP and endorsed by newspapers like the Express, the Sun and the Mail. Sadly, it seems that the present Conservative party is embracing a disastrous policy advocated by these media outlets and misguidedly supported by 17 million people, a number of whom present the face of the baying mob. Which seems to say the Conservatives are ready to be dictated to by such a group.

You represent Southampton, a modern city, a trading port. It has two universities, a diverse economy. This is a city that should be at the heart of the EU. You, as a Parliamentary member should be identifying with this philosophy.

The EU was created as an outcome of two world wars that divided our great Continent. It was created that Europe should never be divided again. If Brexit is pushed ahead this will result in Europe being divided again.

Conservative philosophy surely blends in with that of Germany's Christian Democrats, the French Gaullists, the Spanish PP and other centre-right parties. It does not identify with UKIP, AfD, the French NF. By proposing a UK exit from the EU this suggests otherwise.

If you and other members of the Conservative Party cannot identify with these values and aims that I have set out, it is time for you to do the decent thing, resign your membership of the Conservative Party and join a party that does believe that it is the right thing to exit the EU.

Yours sincerely,



And here is his reply


.
Dear Mr Ides
Thank you for your email.
I think being a Conservative is more about tolerance and differing opinions. I welcome them - and indeed yours. However, I don’t welcome your tone so I will not respond more fully on this occasion.

Regards
Royston Smith | Member of Parliament


There you have it!! Is this the kind of MP that Southampton deserves. I could stomach a Conservative but for our great city he or she must be pro-EU. Southampton is a progressive city. Mr Royston Smith on the other hand seems to be very reactionary. Out him at the next match for being a KIPPER in disguise

 

[Beef]

To be fair all of the major political groups are busy name calling so I don't think that's a valid comment or criticism.
It's also my biggest gripe with politics in general; far too much focus on opposition failings and not enough on their own party.

Every one of them is out for their own. They promise the world and then hurt the poor and sick time after time. People think me slagging of the Tories makes me a Labour supporter, which I am not. I slag of any party I see as doing wrong, I have no allegiance to any of them. I am only slagging the Tories off this harsh as they are the ones in power.

 

[Beef]

This is a letter I wrote to the wonderful Southampton Itchen MP and at the bottom I attach his curt response. Please tell me what he does not like about the tone of my communication>

Dear Mr Smith

I am writing to you because you are a member of the UK Conservative Party. This party was known to be very pro-EU, which is something that many true Conservatives fully endorse.
If you are a true Conservative, like me, you would endorse continued membership of the EU. In addition, true Conservatives believe it would be advantageous to join the eurozone as it would benefit our economy and mean that the UK currency is not constantly exposed to the winds of change that blow through the financial markets of the world, and subsequently harms our economy.

True Consevatives would not follow the agenda as set by UKIP and endorsed by newspapers like the Express, the Sun and the Mail. Sadly, it seems that the present Conservative party is embracing a disastrous policy advocated by these media outlets and misguidedly supported by 17 million people, a number of whom present the face of the baying mob. Which seems to say the Conservatives are ready to be dictated to by such a group.

You represent Southampton, a modern city, a trading port. It has two universities, a diverse economy. This is a city that should be at the heart of the EU. You, as a Parliamentary member should be identifying with this philosophy.

The EU was created as an outcome of two world wars that divided our great Continent. It was created that Europe should never be divided again. If Brexit is pushed ahead this will result in Europe being divided again.

Conservative philosophy surely blends in with that of Germany's Christian Democrats, the French Gaullists, the Spanish PP and other centre-right parties. It does not identify with UKIP, AfD, the French NF. By proposing a UK exit from the EU this suggests otherwise.

If you and other members of the Conservative Party cannot identify with these values and aims that I have set out, it is time for you to do the decent thing, resign your membership of the Conservative Party and join a party that does believe that it is the right thing to exit the EU.

Yours sincerely,



And here is his reply


.
Dear Mr Ides
Thank you for your email.
I think being a Conservative is more about tolerance and differing opinions. I welcome them - and indeed yours. However, I don’t welcome your tone so I will not respond more fully on this occasion.

Regards
Royston Smith | Member of Parliament


There you have it!! Is this the kind of MP that Southampton deserves. I could stomach a Conservative but for our great city he or she must be pro-EU. Southampton is a progressive city. Mr Royston Smith on the other hand seems to be very reactionary. Out him at the next match for being a KIPPER in disguise

I know Roryston personally, through my uncle. He is a utter twat, he spends most of the time in his office above a conservative club. He hardly goes to parliament and drinks loads.

 

[The Ides of March]

What the public needs to do is to get the Conservative Party to rejoin the mainstream of political thinking. It was a pro-EU party. Its natural allies are surely Germany's CDs, the French Gaullists, the Spanish PP and others. By adopting policies that are those of UKIP, the French NF and AfD the Conservative Party appears to have joined their ranks. This is to their shame and should be highlighted more and more in order for them to abandon Brexit which is surely UKIP policy, surely something the Conservatives should distance themselves from.

 

[The Ides of March]

I know Roryston personally, through my uncle. He is a utter twat, he spends most of the time in his office above a conservative club.

I know! And I think I got under his skin there and maybe I am not too wide of the mark in my assessment Beefy!!

 

[HarryTipper]

Every one of them is out for their own. They promise the world and then hurt the poor and sick time after time. People think me slagging of the Tories makes me a Labour supporter, which I am not. I slag of any party I see as doing wrong, I have no allegiance to any of them. I am only slagging the Tories off this harsh as they are the ones in power.

I've found your comments pretty fair but then I'm not aligned to any particular party and as such negative Tory comments have no affect on me.

 

[The Ides of March]

Beefy, I am going to write similar to the Gosport MP, the Portsmouth North MP, (Portsmouth South can be excused as she was in favour of remaining in the E and Havant's MP. Hampshire East and Winchester were pro-EU.

 

[benditlikeabanana]

I think you just justified Beefy's point exactly there! Sweeping generalisations about Muslims is exactly the sort of thing that gets some (not all) people to vote for Brexit.

so by saying everyone that voted for Brexit is a racist is not a sweeping statement?

 

[Beef]

so by saying everyone that voted for Brexit is a racist is not a sweeping statement?

You don't have to be racist to enable a racist. That isn't me saying every one that voted Brexit is racist at all.

 

[ImpSaint]

I never said labour or the Dems were any better. Infact Labour are worse because they have Corbyn whos seems to not give a **** about anything. Farage was front and centre on Brexit he got his spotlight by it going ahead. I like how you keep saying ignorant left, which many Trump supporters say.



If you can't take a person telling you the bad side to what you voted for then you shouldn't vote for it. Like if I have a opinion others call out as being out of order I have to take it.

I only call it the ignorant left because those who of the liberal way of thinking are determined everything has to be left or right which by their insistence that there is no way you can be on both sides on loads of differing issues means that they are on the left. By ignorant I mean that they think that they are the only correct voice and that they are fine ignoring any problem there is just because they think it is unfounded or wrong.

The problem is that while people are quite happy to say I/we am/are right and they are wrong, call them names yet don;t address issues that are concerning people they might feel above them but will end up in decades to come moaning about being ruled by something nasty that ended up growing and growing because they thought they had the moral highground and didn't see any reason that people would not agree with their viewpoints........after all............if all these people are so wrong that surely there aren't enough people that will vote for them?

America is a wake up call. Brexit was not a racist thing no matter how much people want to pin it on "enabling racism" and the 2015 election was won by normal people voting Tory.

We are lucky that we do not have the "god" mentality problem as much as America however that should not mean we think religion will not be a problem again. Christianity may well become "fashionable" again and there are other religions that are fighting for their own agendas these days and growing by the day potected by the naive innocents that think religion will never be a problem again.

And no I don;t just mean Islam. The Catholic church and Vatican are raising the stakes as well at the minute with their power grab on the Maltese knights over the issue of contraception!!!

Blair was a church goer, Cameron was constantly going on about Christian values. This is why I talk of the ignorant left. They see the advances that have happened as all being stunning victories and anyone that disagrees doesn't matter to them. They aren't interested in discussing any difficulties anyone has with this "progress" they just hand out a label and attempt to put you in with all the other deplorables and are vocal about it. They just will not see the problem looming because of their naivety and utopian vision and do the deaf/dumb/blind because it is not worthy of them paying attention to............

........When will they pay attention? When everything they (and in the most part we too) worked so hard for is gone because they refused to slow down and try and wait for other people to catch up? Whether you agree with people's opinions you can't just say F 'em if you don;t agree with them because unfortunately they have votes too and someone will work out how to get their votes other than it being the normal Lib/Lab/Con scooping them up.

Most "right wingers" do their action at the poll station. There aren't many that go round causing trouble, marching or smashing up business' windows. It is the left that do all that en masse and increasingly so these days.

And by left I mean people who insist that issues they don;t agree with are right wing or far right which must therefore mean they are the opposite.

 

[Whiteley Saint]

The way I describe it is that not everyone who voted leave was a racist. However, every racist voted leave.

Vin

Probably true. Can't say I agree with calling everyone who voted Brexit a racist or enabling racism, that's far to simplistic. We will all be too scared to vote at all if we looked at things that way. I voted remain but plenty of my friends voted leave and there's not a racist among them. The referendum wasn't only about immigration and even if it was, wanting to control immigration is not racist.

 

[ImpSaint]

To be fair all of the major political groups are busy name calling so I don't think that's a valid comment or criticism.
It's also my biggest gripe with politics in general; far too much focus on opposition failings and not enough on their own party.

I agree but you might notice that the right is talking about it as "playing them at their own game" in reference to utilising the tactics of the left and beating them at it. I don;t think there are really that many people that are left or right but thats all people talk about so I use it too. Someone said I was left of Corbyn on some issues the other day when I said they should be working a way for people to live nearer to their workplace rather than continually trying to increase road/train capacity.

I did't get worked up about it though. Seems much more sensible to me.

 

[Beef]

I only call it the ignorant left because those who of the liberal way of thinking are determined everything has to be left or right which by their insistence that there is no way you can be on both sides on loads of differing issues means that they are on the left. By ignorant I mean that they think that they are the only correct voice and that they are fine ignoring any problem there is just because they think it is unfounded or wrong.

The problem is that while people are quite happy to say I/we am/are right and they are wrong, call them names yet don;t address issues that are concerning people they might feel above them but will end up in decades to come moaning about being ruled by something nasty that ended up growing and growing because they thought they had the moral highground and didn't see any reason that people would not agree with their viewpoints........after all............if all these people are so wrong that surely there aren't enough people that will vote for them?

America is a wake up call. Brexit was not a racist thing no matter how much people want to pin it on "enabling racism" and the 2015 election was won by normal people voting Tory.

We are lucky that we do not have the "god" mentality problem as much as America however that should not mean we think religion will not be a problem again. Christianity may well become "fashionable" again and there are other religions that are fighting for their own agendas these days and growing by the day potected by the naive innocents that think religion will never be a problem again.

And no I don;t just mean Islam. The Catholic church and Vatican are raising the stakes as well at the minute with their power grab on the Maltese knights over the issue of contraception!!!

Blair was a church goer, Cameron was constantly going on about Christian values. This is why I talk of the ignorant left. They see the advances that have happened as all being stunning victories and anyone that disagrees doesn't matter to them. They aren't interested in discussing any difficulties anyone has with this "progress" they just hand out a label and attempt to put you in with all the other deplorables and are vocal about it. They just will not see the problem looming because of their naivety and utopian vision and do the deaf/dumb/blind because it is not worthy of them paying attention to............

........When will they pay attention? When everything they (and in the most part we as too) worked so hard for is gone because they refused to slow down and try and wait for other people to catch up? Whether you agree with people's opinions you can't just say F 'em if you don;t agree with them because unfortunately they have votes too and someone will work out how to get their votes other than it being the normal Lib/Lab/Con scooping them up.

Most "right wingers" do their action at the poll station. There aren't many that go round causing trouble, marching or smashing up business' windows. It is the left that do all that en masse and increasingly so these days.

I agree something needs to be done, but everyday people won't be able to do much. Unless something really goes wrong. What we need is a Labour that actually does something instead of just roll over for a stomach rub by the Tories.

Can't agree with you on Brexit sorry.

 

[benditlikeabanana]

Really? I know plenty of muslims and they integrate well. They are peaceful and hard-working, both of which are character traits that are acceptable to me



Wow. To rephrase, cutting out the parenthetic statements: "Muslims on the whole are racist, sexist and non tolerant?"



Yes, "christians good, muslims bad."

Gangs of 20 year old men? Yes, entire families leaving Syria are actually composed of gangs of 20 year old men. STOP READING THE DAILY MAIL!

Here's a reminder for you of a previous comment by the Mail regarding immigrants: Tell me how well that finished.

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"These people". Yes, they are all the same. All identical, all the same views, all the same politics, all the same desire not to mix, all the same upbringing.

You are aware that the second definition of racism is "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."?



And finally, the people leaving Syria are escaping a regime that drops barrel bombs onto residential areas. We have a duty to care for them. Before you attack them for seeking refuge elsewhere maybe consider how you would deal with it if our government were doing that to your home town. Genuinely, what would you do?

Vin

Somalia, Tunisia, Morocco,Iran and Iraq. Is assad dropping bombs on them too. Syria represents only a % of people trying to get into Europe and Britain. The problem in Syria is because of Islam, Assad is from a small sect that only represents about13% of the population, the majority Sunni are trying to take control. They have hundreds of years history of killing each other, only now they have better weapons. If the Sunni take control then you will see murder and destruction that would make the current war look like a playground spat. Syria is bad but it shows that certain people can not live together and they def can not live with Europeans.

If all euro countries were to say that if you enter our countries you will receive nothing except for the right to find work, 90 % of these immigrants would stay at home.

 

[Beef]

Probably true. Can't say I agree with calling everyone who voted Brexit a racist or enabling racism, that's far to simplistic. We will all be too scared to vote at all if we looked at things that way. I voted remain but plenty of my friends voted leave and there's not a racist among them. The referendum wasn't only about immigration and even if it was, wanting to control immigration is not racist.

Again you don't have to be a racist to enable one. Like Trump supporters in the poor areas just went along with him as he promised them jobs and help. But they still enabled Trumps sexism and bigotry through voting for him. Not all people that enable racism are bad people, but they still gave that racism a voice by voting.

 

[ImpSaint]

This is a letter I wrote to the wonderful Southampton Itchen MP and at the bottom I attach his curt response. Please tell me what he does not like about the tone of my communication>

Dear Mr Smith

I am writing to you because you are a member of the UK Conservative Party. This party was known to be very pro-EU, which is something that many true Conservatives fully endorse.
If you are a true Conservative, like me, you would endorse continued membership of the EU. In addition, true Conservatives believe it would be advantageous to join the eurozone as it would benefit our economy and mean that the UK currency is not constantly exposed to the winds of change that blow through the financial markets of the world, and subsequently harms our economy.

True Consevatives would not follow the agenda as set by UKIP and endorsed by newspapers like the Express, the Sun and the Mail. Sadly, it seems that the present Conservative party is embracing a disastrous policy advocated by these media outlets and misguidedly supported by 17 million people, a number of whom present the face of the baying mob. Which seems to say the Conservatives are ready to be dictated to by such a group.

You represent Southampton, a modern city, a trading port. It has two universities, a diverse economy. This is a city that should be at the heart of the EU. You, as a Parliamentary member should be identifying with this philosophy.

The EU was created as an outcome of two world wars that divided our great Continent. It was created that Europe should never be divided again. If Brexit is pushed ahead this will result in Europe being divided again.

Conservative philosophy surely blends in with that of Germany's Christian Democrats, the French Gaullists, the Spanish PP and other centre-right parties. It does not identify with UKIP, AfD, the French NF. By proposing a UK exit from the EU this suggests otherwise.

If you and other members of the Conservative Party cannot identify with these values and aims that I have set out, it is time for you to do the decent thing, resign your membership of the Conservative Party and join a party that does believe that it is the right thing to exit the EU.

Yours sincerely,



And here is his reply


.
Dear Mr Ides
Thank you for your email.
I think being a Conservative is more about tolerance and differing opinions. I welcome them - and indeed yours. However, I don’t welcome your tone so I will not respond more fully on this occasion.

Regards
Royston Smith | Member of Parliament


There you have it!! Is this the kind of MP that Southampton deserves. I could stomach a Conservative but for our great city he or she must be pro-EU. Southampton is a progressive city. Mr Royston Smith on the other hand seems to be very reactionary. Out him at the next match for being a KIPPER in disguise

Because you are doing exactly what I said earlier. You are saying the Conservative party has always been a Pro EU party when it hasn't. It was a Pro common market party but the common market is not the EU. It was more sceptical of the EU before Blair wiped out a chunk of them for Cameron in 2010 to fill those spots up with Pro EU like minded people.

You can;t just take support for what preceded the EU and say they are a Pro EU party when they never were. Their grassroots never were either. Even John Major had some run ins where he thought that certain people put up for for EU jobs were too "federalistic" when he vetoed Dehaene's candidacy yet they pushed the equally federal Jacques Santer in instead.

I know you will say that this federal thing will never happen but that is what those in the EU want and are quite open in their addresses to the parliament about their intentions. Doesn't mater how often some of them chuckle at the suggestion and brush it off. Juncker, Verhofstadt and many more are federalists and if all the countries don;t want to be a USE then what is the point having the EU in the first place?

I really do struggle to understand where you get this idea of the Tories being a ProEU party? The EU is not the common market that they once supported.

 

[Beef]

Lol Trump wants to put a 20% tax on imports.

 

[Whiteley Saint]

Again you don't have to be a racist to enable one. Like Trump supporters in the poor areas just went along with him as he promised them jobs and help. But they still enabled Trumps sexism and bigotry through voting for him. Not all people the enable racism are bad people, but they still gave that racism a voice by voting.

Sounds to me like you will have a lot of trouble voting. I am yet to find any party (or referendum vote) which I can vote for without there being something that goes against my own personal values. You only have to look further than the surface and there will be something. People vote to get the best they think and usually have to make compromises. There is nothing racist in Brexit, the racists were there already and briefly thought everyone else was as well.