Off Topic Political Debate

And straight back to Ignore. I tried, but if you are the sort of person who watches that and all that's rattling through your tiny mind is the word "propaganda", then you're not worthy of my time or attention.

 

Sadly our friend so just black and white about everything. There is no future for a politics that is so divisive.

 

Politics has been divisive since its conception, it is the nature of the beast. You need to learn to debate not be abusive to posters.

 

Well perhaps the sort of politics you espouse is no longer helpful for the future of our planet.

and SH i have NOT been abusive to you since you returned ...and i don't think I can be considered abusive to other posters in any way.

You seem to have no interest in finding common ground... so what future is there for our planet if people with your views are in the ascendancy.


Question:

Do you want a divided world or a united world?

Peace or war??

 

Of course, everybody would prefer peace and harmony around the world but you need to be realistic. There has always been conflict between individuals, tribes, nations etc and I expect that will continue until an eventual nuclear war. Even after a catastrophic event like this any survivors would soon continue as before with attrition to others. Not a positive message at this time of the year.

I think you fail to understand that some views emanating from the political right may appear harsh or divisive but are primarily designed to create a fairer and better society. It is easy to label those as selfish or uncaring. I believe a capitalist society is the best option available, as long as large companies and multi nationals pay their taxes like the self employed plumber.

 

Can politics make you ill, psychologically that is? I'm really finding myself in a darker and darker place when it comes to the local politics here in Scotland and finding myself more and more aggressive to the SNP and its constant whining about independence, its constant failure to deliver the structure required for public services, its failure to deliver the environment for business growth, it's thirst for power that it is totally unqualified to use. I find myself despising Sturgeon and Salmond and wanting to kill every driver of a car still carrying a Yes sticker. All of this is totally irrational but getting worse every time I see a picture of Sturgeon or Salmond. The only cure I can think of is to leave Scotland but why should I as a British citizen be forced from my residence of choice by a group of Nationalists? The Nationalists who hate the jews, hate the English etc.. it's horrific how we never learn from history. i guess can be grateful Putin has learnt though and hasn't reacted to the ambassadors assasination in the same way as the Austria/Hungary reacted to Ferdinands assassination...

 

Nobody should be forced from their residence of choice as a result of nationalism Aberdeen - this applies also to Poles and Rumanians living in England, it applies also to Moslems, refugees etc. Everybody should have the right to be where they want to be, as long as they obey the law. No, politics cannot make you ill - you just have to remember that people do not form their ideas out of a vacuum, they form them as a result of their conditioning, the people they have met, the books they have read, their economic situation etc. etc. And so, if you accept that, a persons opinions are not their own at all - but just pure coincidence. It must be very sad living in a country where you appear to hate everyone ! I do not judge people by their politics - I can turn a moronic Fascist into a moronic Communist tomorrow. All I have to do is to convince them to hate the bosses more than they hate the blacks - but they are still a moron. But now is the time for peace and goodwill to all men (peace on the political front) so have a great Christmas - as long as you do not belong to the 'moronic' classes (and they occur in all branches of politics) then there is no problem.

 

Yes...

Peace and goodwill to all at this time.....

 

It's not just this side of the world suffering from corporate greed...

 

"A shocking 3,500 Britons will have a cold pavement for a bed this Christmas as homelessness soars. "
"The shameful figure is a third higher than this time in 2015 and has doubled in five years."

Something is very wrong in a country that is so rich.

 

Juxtapose the last two posts.

 

It proves that we are not going to be allowed to have our brexit cake and eat it. Quite right too.

 

The rights of EU. citizens in the UK. and also UK. citizens in other EU. countries are protected by international agreements (regarding acquired rights) which are external to the EU. Merkel knows very well that these rights are secured anyway - and hence, cannot be negotiated. Nobody is going to be forcefully repatriated - to do so would contravene a whole host of international human rights laws. The real question has nothing to do with this theme, but rather over the principle of informal negotiations prior to article 50 being activated - something which Britain would like, but which is not going to happen.

 

Happy boxing day, well almost \ draw is better than a loss. Anyway thankfully I don't hate everybody up here in fact I like te vast majority of the Scottish people here, English people, South Americans, Poles, Romanians Americans etc.. and contrary to what the SNP would like the world to think they are thankfully not Scotland. You allude to the very problem though that peoples political thinking in the non thinking classes is controlled by their "education" and experience exposure. The SNP are not stupid and are controlling and manipulating these levers for their future control...Its what I despise, that total "using" of people against their best interests,

 

Sturgeon will be waiting an awfully long time for the majority of Scots to want to leave the rest of the EU. It would be a lonely place being out of the UK and out of the EU without a decent currency, and no financial lifeline from London.

 

I cannot claim any kind of in-depth knowledge on these matters but try to take a pragmatic and common sense approach to these things when forming an opinion. I read some quite in-depth comments here, you are a fine contributor if I may be so bold, and it is both enlightening and thoroughly depressing at the same time.

It just strikes me that SH and others think we should have everything our own way and then get uptight when the Europeans tell us, quite rightly, that we can't. Why should they make it comfortable for us to leave? We have a selfish government that has pandered to the whimsy of a Nazi by any other name to preserve their party - not because it's actually good for the country or the EU (our major trading partners, friends, allies in case anyone had actually not realised) and allowed a not insignificant minority to radically change the status of our country. Can you imagine the furore if, say, the monarchy was to be abolished by a similar vote and margin?

Big business will ultimately look after its own interests and that will mean remaining with the larger trading bloc of the EU. FFS the only pro-brexit leaders were the non-dom media moguls with no interest whatsoever in the common good of the country, Putin (divide and conquer seems to be his mantra - split the EU, split NATO as a result and then he can look towards regaining the former USSR states and possibly its satellite nations) the nutter in North Korea and it would seem that Dwrumpf's (yes, I have that little respect for that four time bankrupt) advisers are urging trade with the EU not our relatively small market.

People can wax lyrical about the law, what might or might not happen in the courts but this is a clusterf*ck of a mess we've put ourselves in unnecessarily mainly due to deliberate misinformation. It's not difficult to understand.

 

These political and Brexit threads are becoming a bit mixed up.

I reply to your comment regarding the UK wanting the best possible deal, quite sensible I would have thought. Euroscepticism is rife in the EU, none more so than France, but the UK actually lanced the EU boil with a handsome majority in the referendum. I'm sure some EU negotiators will try to damage the UK, not a good example for those staying in the EU, behave or else you are liable to be bullied!!

We have a government freely elected in 2015 as the best option. It is their responsibility to obey the will of the people and free us from the limiting faulty experiment which the EU has become. Sensibly most people want the process of leaving to be concluded a.s.a.p. so we can expand our growing export market outside of the EU.

 

Therein lies the problem: the referendum vote was not binding legally, the majority of the people did not vote to leave, the promises made by the leave campaign never could be kept. The whole thing is a mess. It is not the will of the people.

The UK is of course an important part of the EU. It is to our mutual benefit to remain together and we are harming them and moreover ourselves as we leave. No reason for the EU not to make it uncomfortable for us in the circumstances, hardly unreasonable.

As you say the lines of the debate a being muddied but then that's politics, I've said my piece for now.

 

Consumer gloom around inflation is deepening as essential spending saw its biggest rise in 20 months, according to a report.
A rise in spending on food and drink has driven essential spending to its strongest level of growth since February 2014, the latest Lloyds Bank Spending Power Report said.
"But while consumer confidence has remained resilient in the face of some seismic economic and political events, it seems the prospect of increased inflation is finally starting to weigh more heavily on people's future expectations. Those who have a negative view of inflation has risen by 11% over the past 12 months to 49%,
"Concern around the impact this will have on customers' spending power next year is now becoming evident."

The fact that this report deals with essential spending, means that those least able to afford things will be hit the hardest. Just as it was the poorer regions that backed the leave vote most strongly, it is the same regions that are now showing the greatest swings against leaving. As life gets increasingly more difficult in those areas you can expect even more people turning against an exit

 

The majority that voted in the referendum voted to leave the EU. This was the will of the people. There were unsubstantiated claims on both sides but the 'dire' consequence' remain financial forecasts have been proved woefully wrong.
The EU is a barrier to free trade opportunities. Other member nations will realise this in time.