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Off Topic Brexit may not mean Brexit

Discussion in 'Watford' started by Leo, Dec 11, 2016.

  1. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    It is like a general election, once you have a result from a democratic vote it stands. Besides there is no apparatus to gauge a'change of mind', Just sore losers not up to the exciting challenge ahead.
     
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  2. andytoprankin

    andytoprankin Well-Known Member

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    A referendum isn't like a general election though - it is a snapshot of opinion from the public given the information they received up to it. The quality of information was chronic, from both sides. As for there being "no apparatus to gauge a change of mind", er, there is. ;)
    And I know you would never have been a "sore loser" as you have demonstrated when various legal/democratic obstacles have made it look like Brexit wouldn't happen... ;)
     
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  3. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    So, a repeat of 1707 you think? The only difference this time being the fact that the people of Scotland have a say on such a bribe through their Holyrood representatives and, at this point in time, that say would be extremely likely to be 'No thanks'.

    Of course, as the SG majority is rather slender & exists entirely thanks to the Green Party, it wouldn't surprise me to find some behind-the-scenes dirty dealing going on aimed at getting rid of that majority. Nor would it surprise me to find that the current threat to sue Green Party MSP Andy Wightman by an unnamed litigant is part of that.
     
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  4. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Our elected politicians decided overwhelmingly in parliament that the best method to decide the UK's future relationship with the EU should be through a referendum. This view was not only supported by the ruling party on which it was elected but also the majority of the main opposition party and others. The PM rightly read there was a significant number of UK citizens that were unhappy at the direction of EU travel. He just underestimated the rife euroscepticism.

    Margaret Thatcher would have been horrified at the damage caused by the euro and the ever increasing federalism.
    Most MP's will duly respect the referendum result.
     
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  5. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    The government made it clear that the referendum vote would be binding. There was ample information on all sides if people bothered to look for it. The worse false information was the pathetic financial scare stories which have all failed to materialise apart from sterling dropping which is on its way back.
     
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  6. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    I'm just off to sunbathe by the pool for a couple of hours until popping down to the bar to watch the match this afternoon. Some of the bars show four games at once so never a dull moment. Back to dear old Brexit Blighty tomorrow. Hope they let me back in.:emoticon-0105-wink:
     
    #66
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  7. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    You could have said that a complaisant commons went along with the decision to have a referendum - actually a great number of the opposition abstained. You could also say that Parliament voted to have a referendum which they knew was only advisory (ie. had no more legal significance than an opinion poll). They did not pledge to honour the result. Democracy means that if you make a mistake then you have the chance to correct it. Parliament voted to have a referendum - they can vote to ignore the result. That is, what we call, Parliamentary democracy - they are 'sovereign', not the people. Before you latch on to the old soundbite of being 'bad losers' you might like to remind yourself of a comment from Nigel Farage (before the referendum) that if remain won by 52-48% then the battle would not be over, and that he could imagine a second referendum on such a narrow basis - his words not mine.
     
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  8. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Apart from the SNP there was very little opposition to the preferred idea of a referendum. The vote was 6 to 1, overwhelming.

    Cameron said he would invoke article 50 the day after if the country voted to reject the EU so it was clear the government did not treat it as advisory. In addition the Tory government since has also made it clear they regard the vote as binding. Parliament is sovereign, it was its decision to offer the referendum.

    Hopefully, any ambiguity will be ended soon when the PM fulfils her promise to evoke article 50, then the fun starts.
     
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  9. andytoprankin

    andytoprankin Well-Known Member

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    Will you moan if we don't? ;)
     
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  10. andytoprankin

    andytoprankin Well-Known Member

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    The most convincing argument I've heard to stay in. ;)
     
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  11. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    So why didn't he invoke it the day after ? We have seen all the difficulties entailed in this - questions of Royal prerogative or not, that the government needs time etc. So we can presume he was lying on this because he knew at the time of speaking that it was not possible.
     
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  12. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Probably just one of many lies purportrated by the 'remain' side.

    My sunbathing has been curtailed by a sudden shower, those dastardly Eurocrats have unbelievable powers.:emoticon-0101-sadsm
     
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  13. Toby

    Toby GC's Life Coach

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    please log in to view this image
     
    #73
  14. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    Ngaire Woods is th dean of the Blavatnik School of Government and professor of Global Economic Governance at the University of Oxford. She founded and is the director of the Global Economic Governance Programme, and is co-founder of the Oxford–Princeton Global Leaders Fellowship programme.
     
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  15. andytoprankin

    andytoprankin Well-Known Member

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    Interesting lady.
    Will it be ignored or shrugged off? <doh>
     
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  16. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    The facts are that most economists, business leaders, Governments (apart from Russia) see Brexit as bad for the world economy.......
     
    #76
  17. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    Ignored, shrugged off, laughed at, sneered at, pooh-poohed, ridiculed, derided....

    All straight from the Tory handbook on 'Dealing with the Electorate'.
     
    #77
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  18. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    I'm surprised you did not show the Australian High Commissioner on the Sunday Politics show saying Brexit presented the UK with 'great opportunities' outside of the EU. A working group has already been set up between the UK and Australia. Mr Downer said "Brexit is not as hard as some people say" and "life outside, as we know, can be pretty good"
     
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  19. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    "Australia’s trade minister has told the UK that any post-Brexit trade deal between the nations will have to wait for his country to complete parallel negotiations with the European Union." He went on to say that they would want " free movement of people as part of any deal".
     
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  20. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    There are renewed rumblings in Oz about breaking ties with UK and becoming a Republic - wouldn't surprise me if that were to happen at the same time. The current PM was leader of the failed attempt in 1999, although, to be honest, his personal rating has taken a bit of a bashing recently due to some of his Tory-esque decisions on Tax & Welfare.
     
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