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Youth & Loanee Watch

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by DHCanary, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    #321
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
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  2. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps our brilliant U23s can wreak some revenge for last season JMF! <cheers>
     
    #322
  3. canary-dave

    canary-dave Well-Known Member

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    Carlton Morris signs new deal with Norwich! <ok>
     
    #323
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  4. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    I would be looking for a new CB to play alongside Klose not as an alternative to him. I'd also be happy to move on Hoolahan or Naismith
     
    #324
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  5. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    They'll at LEAST make a game of it and NOT 'throw in the towel!!!'
     
    #325
  6. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Klose is a right-sided CB who can also play on the left. Unfortunately our only left-sided CB is Bassong so, unless he is playing, Klose is playing out of position. Thus we need to recruit a quality left-sided CB to play alongside Klose but they are hard to come by. Thus my suggestion that Dijks might play as a left-sided CB if we recruited another LB.

    I disagree about Hoolahan and Naismith, who both have the ability to break down locked up defenses. Pritchard has had a field day in games we are winning easily, like Brentford 5-0 or Forest 5-1, but he struggles in tight games against solid defenses. That ability will come in time, as it will for Maddison, but they're not the full article yet.
     
    #326
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  7. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Rick, but we're going to have to agree to disagree re Naismith, especially after his inept performance on Sunday (I don't know if you were at the game!!), but he did very little with the ball and when he did have it, on well over 60% of the time, he passed it to someone wearing blue and white - perhaps he thought he was back at Everton!!! <laugh>
    As I said previously, I'd rather Hoolahan was used primarily as a sub and NOT a regular starting 11 player next season.
    I also feel that Pritchard has a lot to offer given a regular starting place.
     
    #327
  8. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    For me keeping Naismith, Hoolahan, Pritchard & Maddison is a luxury we can't afford as a championship team, especially next season when the parachute payments start to dry up. We can afford to lose one of them without weakening our squad too much if at all and use any money gained / saved to strengthen elsewhere, for me like you we need a new CB, LB & a striker as a minimum, although I basically agree with your summary, I would like to see the cutting back of the deadwood to go deeper. Maddison is a more than adequate 3rd choice cover for this role and he shouldn't have to wait till he's older or more experience to be given opportunities. If he's good enough to play he's good enough. If Deli Alli played for Norwich he'd still be waiting for one of our older less competent players to finish their career before he got a chance. For me I can't see us getting into the play offs, indeed if we finish where we are now then I think we would have done better than our performances over the season deserve. I think we should look at giving some of our youth more first team exposure between now and the end of the season.
     
    #328
  9. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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    Ain't that the truth! <grr>
     
    #329
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  10. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    The difficulty is that getting rid of a senior player still in contract is expensive. Wes and Naismith are on PL wages scaled down to the Championship. Unless a PL team comes in for one of them I can't see either leaving, as few Championship teams could afford their wages. That's why Lafferty is still here, for example. Letting go of the 5 out of contract players is about all we can expect now. The only possibility might be a loan to one of the newly promoted teams. That's one of the consequences of being a yo-yo team. If Klose and/or Dijks leave, then we will need even more senior players to come in. I agree that next year is crucial with the last parachute payment, but that's also why we can't gamble by going gung-ho on playing young players just yet. They will get chances and they need to take them the way Jacob (our Deli Alli) has taken his, but that won't be the norm. Josh's progress is more typical of the likely pattern of breaking into the match-day line-up. Those two aside, none of the other youffs have proven themselves at Championship level. Maddison is probably the nearest, but even he has said that the level of play at Aberdeen is similar to that at Coventry in League One. That's why we need at least two senior players at every position, IMO. That was my intention in the line-up I suggested:

    GK: Ruddy, McGovern, Rudd, Matthews
    RB: Pinto, Martin, Ramsey
    CB: Martin, Bennett, Efete
    CB: Klose, (New CB) Godfrey
    LB: Dijks, (New LB?), Toffolo
    CM: Howson, Dorrans, McGrandles, Ebou Adams
    DM: Tettey, Thompson, Godfrey
    WR: Jacob, Jarvis, Jaiyesimi
    WL: Wildschut, Naismith, (Jarvis), Josh
    AM: Hoolahan, Pritchard, Maddison
    S: Jerome, Oliveira, (New Striker), Morris
     
    #330

  11. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    A couple of excellent posts Rick and pretty much agree with most of it. IMO, this was your most pertinent comment - "If we finish where we are now then I think we would have done better than our performances over the season deserve. I think we should look at giving some of our youth more first team exposure between now and the end of the season."
    Yes, of course the likes of Lafferty are going to stay, as they don't want a drop in wages and being honest, the best we can really hope for in the summer is offloading the players who are out of contract.
    I can see where you're coming from with your list of who should be in the squad for next season, though I'm hoping we'll see the emergence of Basil and CJ used more as an 'impact sub'. I can't deny that he 'works his socks off for the team', but I feel his finishing is worse than Grabban's!!!!
     
    #331
  12. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    I think that was my comment not RER.
     
    #332
  13. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    That was canario's comment, JMF. I'm not sure about the 'performances over the season' being the problem; to me it is the lack of consistency. That's what Newcastle and Brighton have had after their slow starts. As for Oliveira and Jerome, I think they offer different strengths. Oliveira is at his best against defensive sides where he can use his skills to full effect. Jerome is better against attacking sides, especially away from home where his ability to break away with pace makes him a threat. He has 11 goals in 24 starts and 5 sub appearances, averaging 2.1 shots per game, or 11 goals from around 50 attempts (22%). I'd say that was pretty normal, really. He also has 5 goals in his last 8 appearances, which is pretty decent, IMO. Oliveira has 8 goals in 11 starts and 8 sub appearances and is also averaging 2.1 shots per game, so his 8 goals came from around 28 attempts (28%). Significantly only one of his 8 goals was scored in an away match, whereas 6 of Jerome's 11 goals were scored in away matches. As for Grabban, he hasn't scored all season (0%).
     
    #333
  14. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    Apologies canario.
    Rick, I always say - there are lies damn lies and statistics!!!
    I'm not arguing with you re Jerome's or Basil's goals per attempts etc, but I know I'm not alone in voicing concerns re his conversion rate and as I and others have said, if he could improve on that aspect of his all round game, he'd still be playing in the PL!!!! He has scored some good goals in the last few games and I think the only time he forced a save from Bialkowski was from a very feeble header.
    He and Basil are quite different players and I've just seen that Basil may be back to fitness in the next couple of weeks, so I wonder if we might see BOTH on the pitch together for at least a few minutes in the Barnsley game.
    I'm not sure how many minutes Grabban has actually played this season!!
     
    #334
  15. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Well for me, JMF, there's a difference between objectivity and subjectivity where statistics are concerned. Individual perceptions are influenced by a number of factors. One of these is what perceptual psychologists call 'expectation perception' where what one sees is influenced by what one expects to see. Statistics are not subject to that. It annoys me (and you may have noticed this) when people turn against players, especially our players, without looking at objective facts that are available. The statistics (worse than damn lies as you call them), are based on observed shots and goals. Whoscored charts these on every player in every league game as they happen. Perhaps this is just another area where we'll have to agree to disagree.
     
    #335
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  16. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    Well Rick - I've been to all but one home game this season and from what I've seen, Jerome's 'stats' are VERY generous re shots to goals, but as you say, we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.
     
    #336
  17. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, but your judgement based on memory is only considering half the criteria - home matches - where Oliveira is stronger against packed defenses. You could take that as an argument for playing Oliveira at home, but it has no weight in arguing to play him away, where tactics suit his style less and where he's only managed 1 goal all season.
     
    #337
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  18. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    Hence why I suggested in an earlier post (#334) to play both for at least some of the time against Barnsley.
     
    #338
  19. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    As I've said before Jerome is best when we're playing quick flowing counter attacking football. If we want more goals from him then we need to get the ball forward much quicker. Our midfield in general and Tettey in particular are quiet poor at this.
     
    #339
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  20. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    Oh well Rick - CJ scores away from home again.
    But on the flip side, JR has faced 2 shots and conceded 2 goals!! The Owls first goal was also an error from him.
     
    #340

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