Alright guys I know this could be a touch controversial but this being a discussion board why should we not discuss this? I think Arsene said again at the AGM last week that we should reserve judgment on him till the end of the season so on the assumption that we make the Top 4 when the season closes, do you think you would like the club to continue under his stewardship or do you think that a club like ours needs a manager who will see that while 4th place qualifies us for a chance to play in the Champions League ( remember we would still need to qualify for the latter rounds ), 4th place is an also ran spot that does little to honour the great traditions of our club. I think Arsene would make a great director of football for us. It would be a wonderful way for the club to honour him for all he has done and of that I take nothing away. Over to you pals.
I think 4th this season would be a tremendous achievement given the turmoil around the Summer outgoing players and the speed we were forced to use to bring in replacements. Couple that with the continued mindless spending of M City and Cheslea who we will never be able to compete with without proper rules/regulation governing expenditure, and I really would see 4th as a successful season. AW will still be our manager in 5 years time..
I accept that the mindless chequebook syndrome fostered by Chelsea and lest we forget, United has made 1st place that much more difficult to attain. It's probably best covered in another thread that we could, if circumstances would allow, be in a position to compete with them too. However, I see that the delays of this summer's signings were the cause of our difficult start to the season. I think that eventually we did buy well but we had by then lost so much time this season and have had to play catch up as a result of those delays. What I do find difficult to take too was the constant indecision and changes of direction over the summer and that while it was accepted by our manager and the board that we needed defensive cover, none were bought until Vermaelen continued to be injured. As bewildering was Arsene's inability to reverse the tide of change that overcame the mentality of the team ever since we lost the final of the Carling Cup. That began a run of poor performance that continued into the first 7 matches of this new season. A bad month is barely acceptable at this level of the game. I don't know if you'll agree but I think a run of 18 matches is quite another thing. I don't know if we have seen the best of Arsene and I say that having been a supporter of the man until this recent poor run. I would be more than happy if he rises out of this but through the first two months of this current campaign, I was more of the opinion that I would like to preserve the good memories we all have of Arsene than to have him continue and possibly undo his wonderful record. I don't want to see him him hurt in any way since that would be quite wrong and unworthy which is why I would like Arsene to be awarded a special position within the club. On the field though, unless we can regain our former glory I don't see him as the best we could have to lead the club. This is not intended to be a slur since every manager has his day. Well almost every manager it seems. Currently I think Gus Hiddink is more capable. Whether he is available is another matter.
Best man for the job. He knows the players, the club and the fans. He has proven his quality and ability to win trophies (doubles, invincibles etc..) and won Manager of the Decade. Several top clubs would love to have AW manage there sides. He has shown that he can still pick out quality players and we have dealt with the emeergence of clubs like Chelsea and City well by maintaining CL football for 14 years now and still competing for the title and cups in recent years despite not quite making the cut (doing this whilst moving stadiums). He has also got in players that have covered the gaps left by Fabregas/Nasri/Clichy better than most expected and we look like we will be back up in the top 4 soon. He has the boards backing and should have the fans backing - he is Arsenal through and through and he will win us trophies once again. In Arsene We Trust!
I think maybe some are forgetting how we came to be in our current situation. i.e AW's inability to get Cesc and Nasri to sign up to his vision for the club and their subsequent departure. Furthermore the lack of trophies in the past 6/7 seasons has made it clear AW is not infallible. It is not merely a matter of money to spend, lack of spending did not lose us the Carling Cup last season but poor purchases probably did e.g Koscielny & Squillaci. It is not as simple as Wenger out or in, he needs to convince the players and fans that his vision is workable and achievable, i think few of us really expected his 'youth' startegy to win us anything. Now that things are on a more even keel, let us have no more of this 'no money' rubbish. AW needs to demonstrate he has what it takes to take us forward and forget some of the 'pipe dreams' of his regarding trying to proving the rest of the world wrong.
I think to call one of the greatest managers in the world of football as tactically naive is a bit ... well... naive to say the least. I also do not buy this idea that in order to be successful we need to spend "some money, but not as much as ManCity or Chelsea". This is a twisted thinking. How much is this "some money" -10 ml? 20 ml? 40 mi? 40 ml sounds much better than 20, isn't it? Some fans just want shopping therapy. Yeah, lets splash 60 ml on Goetze and Hazard - they are definitely better than Wilshere and Ramsey and will surely bring us trophies! Liverpool were not afraid to spend and look how dangerous they are now.. oh, wait.. OK, for 60 ml we could even buy Torr... no, sorry, I just lost it... So! I would say - just relax, let Arsene work and enjoy the football. How come every footballer or manager or a pundit worth listening to says "sacking Wenger would be a big mistake". And only fans keep talking about it. Oh yes, they need a shiny thing, and they need it now, I forgot.
SamirNasriIsa.. : I do not think he was exposed tactically, that would be too simplistic. Football tactics is not a rocket science, every kid is an expert, and Wenger sure knows what he is doing. I think he wants to keep the integrity of Arsenal style because he has a tremendous belief in his players. Sometimes this belief is maybe not entirely justified. But this is his strength as much as his weakness in my opinion. Wenger is a strategist and thinks long term. Of all the things he has said recently the most important was one phrase widely overlooked imho. " This is the start of a new cycle". So you need to bear this in mind to understand what he is doing, methinks. First - he still trusts his young generation ( now it is what was left and the next one). Second - he is not going to deviate from his principles and his style. He lost Cesc, and now he wants to start it all over again. Hence AOC, Myachi, Campbell etc. I am sure he is loking for a replacement for bendtner , but not a superstar (we can not afford a superstar striker obviously) and not an experienced "name" , but a youngster with huge potential (Hence Park, who will go in 2 years) You must admire the guy for his courage, really. Or be it stubbornness, depending on your opinion. If you look at his summer buys -it is all very logical. He tried to buy 2 or 3 quality youngsters he had in mind, at least we had reports from foreign clubs of a couple of big Arsenal bids - in the 20-30 ml region. He did not get his men. So he bought several guys who are in effect a stopgap replacements who's main purpose is to help weather the storm and then develop the youngsters. He did not buy Enrique not to kill Gibbs. He brought Arteta and Benayuon who are perfect as temporary replacements and mentors for youngsters. So he will keep educating the next young generation and teaching them his style of attacking football. If you look closely, everything is built around it. The only exception is Mertesacker, which is a strange buy, because Wenger said he never believed in added height. But Mert is surely a back-up for TV-Kos who are a perfect CB pair for an attacking high line in Wenger's view. Even though he says he will rotate. If all goes to the plan - it will be TV-Kos. Againg - one must applaud his ability to withstand the pressure and stick to his guns. Wenger sacrifices some tactical advantages and decisions for strategic reasons, and I am sure he is doing it on purpose. As for spending - of course we need to spend - but Arsene will only spend serious money if he can get a player who perfectly fits his strategy and vision. Do not get me wrong I would love to see Goetze or Hazard as anyone here, I was just sarcastic. But with current Arsenal form, IF it continues, he will choose his buys very carefully this January.
Actually it does. As proved during his tenure. We might not have won anything for a while, but Wenger's ideology is not the reason we've fallen short. It's actually kept us in contention.
What you kept you in contention was Cl and being the second biggest club. As soon as chelsea came into money they took arsenals spot in the top 2. Now city are taking your spot in the top 3. Worry about Spurs and Pool because usually whoever wants Arsenals spot ends up getting it. Wenger is a scout and a book-keeper not some great tactician with a fantastic football philosophy which the southern based media would have you believe.
So apparently before this season nobody wanted our spot apart from moneybags Chelsea and City... I wonder why.
Spots don't belong to clubs, they have to be earned and Wenger has earned us 15 years of CL football and numerous trophies. A 'scout and book keeper' wouldn't have been able to have done that. If Spurs and Liverpool can prove that they can do the same, then fair play to them.
He is tactically one dimensional . He can /will not adapt to different scenarios. He has already said on many occassions " we play the arsenal way , the only way we know " Well how can you play the same way against teams with top players like city and UTD as you would against wigan and wolves. Its ridiculous. Mancini started of in the PL by playing very defensively until he got the measure of his opposition. We all said it was dull anti football. Now it is clear that it was very clever. He has built the team from the defence, forward . Now they are a formidable team indeed. I fear that if we dont treat the bigger teams with a little more caution we will not be able to grind out a result against them.
15 Years of failure in Europe. Face facts Arsenal profited from Sky and Cl money in the same way united did. When your earning tens of millions a year more than your competitors its easy to bimble along in second. SAF has made numerous successful teams wenger made one. Where SAF challenged big spending chelsea, wenger got pushed aside. While SAF has changed tactically, especially in Europe, wenger has remained the same. United are still challenging at the top with a good squad while Arsenal are praying for fourth, a couple injurys to a CB and RVP away from going into freefall.
Im with SamirNasriIsA****** and a few others saying that Wenger is tactically lacking and is one dimensional. He has got to be the most stubborn coachs in europe. He simply will not see his faults and continue to make the same old mistakes time and time again. Probably the most annoying thing that i find from Wenger is his 67 minute substitutions. We could be swept away by a tsunami, but he'll still be there making his 67 minute substitution. He rarely ever makes a tactical substitution to change the state of the game, even when a player is playing so awefully bad, he will still haul him off at the 67th minute!!! Seriously stubborn indeed.
Is this a joke. Arsenal should be delighted if they get anywhere near fourth. Your main rivals have to be Chelsea and Spurs, good luck!
Well Jayram Some may well say very stubborn, perhaps short-sighted or even lacking in tactical adaptability. For too long now that has only brought us near the brink of total success. SO near and yet so far. Arsene has done well especially over the first 7 years of his time at the club. His was a new and fresh approach but as you said before, others have caught up but the man has not adapted to cope with the change. During the first half of his 15 years with us, we could field teams that were the envy of the league. Unlike SAF who has continued to change with time and remain at the top, Arsene's inflexibility has managed only to keep us in contention. But then again that was the plan with the coming of the stadium, wasn't it? To give the club a chance to remain in contention while they put into place their sustainable model which relies heavily on the change of rules on the horizon for success. I think it's not unlike chasing the two birds in the bush. I have concerns that Arsene can get us out of this situation since as he himself has suggested, 4th place is itself some form of grail. 4th place remains 4th place, nothing more and a whole lot less. Sadly it appears to be enough for this board and their manager.
Quite right Mr Ballright That one dimensional approach can also be all too easily read by the opposition and when that happens the players are left without a solution on the pitch. Time and gain this has happened and many speak of our lack of a Plan B. Arsene somehow doesn't see it that way. Arsene should rightly be applauded for his work which has brought us much success in the past but they remain in the past. We have a future to grind out and he along with this board don't make it easy.
Fourth place is not an achievement. After our poor end of last season we needed to make our signings, particularly a CB, early to give them time to gel. As it was we had already dropped points before mertesacker was signed and he has struggled having been thrown in with little time to adapt to tactics and team mates. If we had adequately replaced cesc and samir then we would be fighting for the title, not fourth place! Wenger failed to do his job properly this summer. If we don't finish in the top two then he has not achieved anything that most average managers could at our club this season. We had money to spend having sold cesc and samir so there are no excuses. We have missed out on key targets like mata, cahill and alvarez. Everyone at the club needed a lift this summer, instead we sold our best two players and replaced them with benayoun and arteta! Epic fail!
