What the **** is our problem?

Defence? It's ****, no doubt about it, our back 4 (apart from Baily) are ALL squad players at best. However, the rest of the squad is quality.

Pace? It's not that we don't have players with pace, it's just that our football is slow. Slow passing, no movement, too many touches on the ball.

Physical strength? How many of our players (other than Pogba and Ibrah) actually muscle other players off the ball? None.

Tactics? Do we have a system?? Do we have an identity in our style of football? I haven't seen it yet.

So what is it?

After 3 years of underperforming despite an improvement in our squad, it looks endemic.

I want to add, that I'm happy to give Mourinho time and not judge him or write him off after a dozen games. It's equally likely the whole situation could change and by the end of the season we could be flying, and looking back and saying we should'nt have been so knee-jerk about this. But we need to see signs of improvement, if not on the pitch, in Mourinho's general demeanour. Because right now his whole persona doesn't endear confidence tbh.

 

I can't think of any more fitting title but that should have been in CAPS. But I'm too depressed about us to even start this analysis.

 

Treble you know what the problem is (as do all sensible utd fans) - Jose.

One of the great modern day managers but the fire has gone, players don't perform for him in the same way.

 

I'm still not convinced that's the case. Wishful thinking? Time will tell.

But I see one common thread over the last 3 years (even before Mourinho) and that's a destruction of self belief, of not being bold in our football, in not taking risks and playing with any real freedom. Instead of players coming in and changing that, it seems they get sucked in to the same lethargy and despair. It really is a mystery.

 

Maybe Jose can rediscover what made him great, say you leave him at the club for 4-5 years and accept his first two seasons will be a struggle, then you may be right but for Jose to have success, instant success, I look at Jose and see someone who doesn't have it in him.

You could argue that to return to the success of Ferguson, you have to allow a manager the same length of time (5 years) otherwise you're going to change managers every 2-3 seasons, moyes, lvg, mourinho, whos next? why not just leave a manager and let Jose prove people wrong. I still like the guy and think he is one of the great managers in my lifetime, but he looks to have lost that fire.

 

We saw what Jose is like when things don't go his way - with Chelsea. He ends up like a babbling old tramp.

Shame Kloppo turned you down for being a cash club, he would have been your saviour

Very good thread, looking forward to its development!

 

We also saw what it's like when things do go Jose's way...

please log in to view this image

I'm sure this is what most Liverpool fans are bitter about when it comes to Jose. Look it even says your name at the bottom of that pic mate.

 

The OP is about the problems within our team not singling out Jose ffs

 

Tonight was as bad as I've seen us, ever.

I genuinely can't think of a worse performance under van Gaal or Moyes, and this squad should be head and shoulders above those under that pair.

We're quite clearly unbalanced. Our defence is criminally ****e. It's offensively bad. Not one of the back four was anywhere near good enough tonight.

Then we've got about fifteen 'number ****ing ten's' vying for five positions in front of the back four and two centre forwards playing on the wings. Or rather, refusing to play on the wing as neither actually did.

Sorry, I forgot Schneiderlin who isn't a number ten. He is a centre midfielder who started at centre midfield but he was taken off. For obvious reasons. I think.

The team is so **** even De Gea has toed the line of ineptitude. As has Zlatan, who is giving a good impression of an oil tanker in his immobile position 'up front', for want of a less vague description of what he's supposed to be achieving?

****e.

And yes, I am going on Sunday and I'm ****ing dreading it.

 

shaw blind rojo Damian

That's your ****ing problem

You're welcome

 

If we have fifteen number 10's why are none of them making runs behind the defence? Why are none of them controlling the passes into the box? We don't stretch defences at all.

 

I don't know, you're asking the wrong person.

I'm just poiting out where the fault lies;

**** back four/too many like minded players vying for the same space and many of those playing out of position.

 

It's more than that imo. For a long time we have been second best physically, today the Fenerbache players were stronger than us, outmuscled us on every tackle. They moved the ball quicker when they got possession while we played pretty triangles in the middle of the pitch when we had possession.

Even worse, when we get to the final third, on the edge of the box or on the wing we literally have NO plan. We just think we can force the ball through which is utter nonsense. We don't have any tactical sense to stretch the opposition back 4, to pull defences away with runs, to bring them out or even to create ANY corridor of uncertainly between their CM and back 4. Which leads me nicely on to our movement. When me have the ball we have NO movement. Our players just stand there. It's not the players' speed that slows our pace, it's how quickly we move the ball that slows our pace.

 

In two years who from this team will survive?

De Gea (if he doesn't bugger off to Madrid)
Shaw?
Pogba
Rashford
Martial

 

Sorry Trebs, I really think you are suffering from the ailment known as UIR. With UIR it was Van Gal, with you Jose. As an outsider looking in, I don't see a huge amount of difference in either manager.

 

I think any other of the 'top' managers would triumph with your squad, so the buck stops with Jose mate.

He doesn't know his best 11, he's using tactics from 7/8 years ago, he's fallen behind the modern managers - it's so obvious.

He's slamming his players in public, very often. Total shambles mate.

I know most on here will blame Matth for this loss (and I agree to a certain extent), but I think Jose must share some of that blame.

 

What you've described comes down to the manager and coaches.

My point on samey players all vying for space and the defence being **** still stands though. When we had Mata, Rooney, Mhkhy, Zlatan and Herrera on the pitch at the same time they could all with some justification be called the second striker, No. 10, attacking midfielder, whatever anyone wants to call that position. Prior to that he was playing Pogba there, completely out of position.

Another thing I don't get is why Zlatan has to play every game. **** me, Rooney was for months accused of 'slowing down' our play (good to see, kind of, that we play that way regardless of whether he's there or not, ergo not his fault) and yet having Ibra at No. 9 every single game does exactly that. We should have pace at 9, Martial preferably but Rashford also to be considered, with Zlat more withdrawn. Then that ****s Mata, who is our best and most consistent player.

It's a mess to be perfectly honest.

 

I thought you said the first three home games showed that Jose was adapting to the United way and playing a more expansive game

 

I thought that too.

Treble's defence of Jose was UIR-like.

But surely this meltdown shows Treb is now turning on Jose already.

Give UIR credit, he stayed loyal to LVG for two years plus.

Treb is turning after 2 months

 

And the other thing on this, it's all very well Mourinho coming out in the press and saying the players have let him down and that they treated it like a friendly but it is he who has before pretty much every EL match we've played stated in the press that 'we do not want' to be in this competition.

His words. Hardly surprising the players play in such a way really, when the manager seemingly can't be arsed.