Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Manchester United

Whenever it comes to crunch matches, we epically fail.

We always lose the 6 pointers and we don't fight in cups. I'd rather Poch said nothing or be a bit cryptic with the damning than to offer cuddles on cam because to me that makes him look like part of the problem. No doubt there is a lot of public displays of unity taking place here....but hearing that about myself after a loss would not encourage me to roll my sleeves up. Granted I don't know what goes on behind closed doors...I can only go by what I see.

 

Hard to believe I'm saying this, but I felt Spurs needed Lamela playing yesterday. He is greatly missed, not just in unlocking defences with his forward passes but also his ability to harass defenders and freeing up other team mates.

As alluded to previously, a 1-0 loss at Man Utd is not drastic, and nor losing away to Chelsea. Spurs biggest problem is converting the draws into wins. Losses away to the top teams are almost expected and hopefully will balance out by beating them at WHL.

No need to panic just yet!

 

Whatever "methods" are being used off camera are not working (the consistent
performances of last season etc) . The true test of a manager/squad is how they
respond when things are not going to plan or when the pressure is on.

Seems to be in coin toss territory at the moment as to which Spurs will turn up.

 

Lamela is the most ferocious MF presser in the squad.
But even then, where was it generally yesterday ??
Even the Chelsky game had 40 mins worth.

 

I was interested in that question and not a bloody word

 

If i was the CEO I would have considered resigning if I had let the company drift so far away from good performance. But if somehow it was the staff who were the issue then telling the story straight is the right thing. But I wouldn't announce that I'd done it to the press.

 

We're rapidly running out of players in the treatment room for this excuse to work for much longer. Every team and every manager deals with having key players out. Having multiple key players out at the same time, as was the case with us earlier in the season, is one thing; but one player missing?! If we're truly saying that unless Spurs have all 11 of their best players fully fit in order to function, that's fine. Just don't be surprised when we finish 8th.

Poch spent a summer dismantling the wider squad by selling off useful if not amazing players who at least knew the team, knew the system and most importantly knew the league. I had no problem with the departures of Mason, Bentaleb, Chadli etc. especially at the prices we received/will receive, but the bottom line seems to be that our summer dealings have left us very, very thin on the ground across almost the entire midfield. We have no combative midfield engine to understudy Dembele, no creative box-to-box player to cover Alli, and no goal-scoring wide men to cover for Eriksen and Lamela.

As far as I'm concerned, we should be looking into selling one of if not both of Lamela and Eriksen come the end of the season if they haven't seriously upped their games. This is their 4th season at the club and we more or less know what each player can and can't do. Eriksen will always be too inconsistent to truly influence games. His set pieces will continue to be crap, and he won't score anywhere nearly enough goals from open play. Likewise Lamela will never have the pace or the right foot to truly influence games, and for the same reasons will never score nearly enough goals to suit our purposes. People speak about our first XI as if it is the best in the country when it plainly isn't. Son, Lamela and Eriksen can all be significantly upgraded, we just can't afford to do it.

Alli played 90 minutes on Sunday because frankly, he is the only one out of our AM's who may yet grow into a player who can operate and impact to the same extent as a Coutinho, Hazard or Ozil.

 

Nobody is saying that you shout to the rafters that the manager has given the squad
the hairdryer treatment. Merely that if this is now necessary, then do it ASAP.

 

Dermot Gallagher thinks that Madley got the Wanyama penalty call wrong:
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ka-correctly-not-booked-says-dermot-gallagher
No ****. Rojo shouldn't have even been playing, following his two-footed tackle against Everton.
Fat lot of good that does us, though.

Another flat performance where we lacked creativity and our attacking players failed to turn up.
At least Sissoko and N'Koudou looked active and had a bit of pace.
Perhaps they'll be given more of a chance, if the current starters don't seriously up their game soon?

 

Every player is lacking in some respects. Players have different attributes. The aim for any manager is to assemble a team/squad with different qualities to complement each other. City and Liverpool are presently showing how failing to recruit certain types of defenders can be costly, however good your front six is. Spurs have a strong, balanced team, although the decision to sell fringe players and replace them with untried youngsters in key areas is a gamble. Your squad isn't as strong in depth as some other clubs - although that assessment is subjective; perhaps it's fairer to say you lack experience when compared to clubs who have recruited established players to boost their squad depth. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing in the long term. It's easier for the expectations of players to be managed, for younger players to develop and for new recruits to settle in. There's no big name player in the Spurs squad sat on the sidelines, discontented and a concern for the manager.

I'm not sure how one poor performance/result away at Utd has caused such a backlash. Spurs were the only unbeaten team up to two weeks ago. Your results match any team in the calendar year(2016), It's not coincidental that the recent slight dip in results occurred when Kane and/or Alderweireld have been absent. It's never ideal to be dependent on certain players, but even the most successful clubs down the years have suffered badly by the loss of one or two key players. Your squad could be strengthened, but it's an ongoing process. Players like Jansen and Sissoko have been brought in for quite big fees, as back up players, so there's clearly an attempt by the club to improve the squad. The merits of signing these particular players is questionable at this stage, but it's early days for them. How many players instantly flourish, especially those with little or no PL experience? Unlike, say, Utd there isn't pressure to accommodate so many experienced players with reputations in the team or risk unrest. Schneiderlin was rated 2nd only to Matic as a midfielder of his type at Southampton. He's 27. He cost £25M+. How long can he remain happy not being a first team regular? It's a similar situation with many others because 25 high profile players can't all be kept happy in the same squad.Spurs squad has much greater balance. Pochettino is getting it just about right, all things considered.

 

Eriksen's not been in great form this season but he's definitely one of the best AM's in the league and getting an upgrade on him would be extremely difficult. Coutinho had a great start to this season but there's plenty of argument to show he's just as inconsistent as Eriksen, just because he does a fancy flick every now and then and is a player of a massive pro-media club it shouldn't mask the fact that statistically he's not even been as good as Eriksen during his time in England. Ozil tends to go missing in big games and is another who drifts in and out of form, he's a brilliant assister but Eriksen has a healthy assist record himself. Hazard is the only one I'd deem a complete level above, he's one of the very best players in the world.

These are the stats of Eriksen, Coutinho and Ozil since joining their English clubs.

Eriksen
Played 152. Scored 35. Assisted 37.

Coutinho
Played 159. Scored 34. Assisted 34.

Ozil
Played 137. Scored 29. Assisted 49.

Eriksen leads on goals scored and is second to Ozil in the assist chart (costing roughly £25m-£30m less than the German). While he's been really frustrating this season, I think the idea of selling him is way over the top, there are very few who could come in and better what he's done. Competition for his role would be great but the actual idea of selling him is crazy, in my opinion.

As for Lamela, we've all seen how much more tenacity is in the side when he plays. His "chase them down" mentality rubs off on other players. You've spoken of the need of experience and leadership countless times in many of your previous posts so wouldn't you class the impact of Lamela being on the pitch as a form of leadership? If our pressing game is much more efficient when he's playing, surely that signals how he leads by example? It may not be a vocal form of leadership but that gritty side to him is definitely followed and mirrored by others on the pitch when he's playing.

 

Will this suffice?

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Your points about Eriksen are well made SOS, and thanks for providing those stats as they are quite eye-opening. I think a lot of my frustration about Eriksen stems from something that is entirely out of his control - he is now permanently played out of position in order to accomodate Alli. I have always felt that he would be better served playing in the middle behind Kane but the latter's incredible partnership with Dele last season put that plan to bed for good it would seem.

As for Lamela, you're right - I've banged on about team leadership and tenacity on dozens of occasions. The only thing I've spoken about more is the Lamela Dilemma: the painful reality that he is (rightly) praised for all the things we didn't sign him to do. Of all the supporting cast in Baldini's Travelling Circus, he was 'the one', the left-footed young prodigy tearing up Serie A who was meant to be Bale's heir-apparent. Now, I had no expectation for Lamela to develop into as good a player as Bale, but by the same token - he doesn't do nearly enough of what Bale did in order to be seen as his heir. Namely: score and set up goals.

One of the few positives about this season is that even in the almost complete absence of the high-intensity press that made us so formidable last season, we still have a bloody good defensive record! This year, we have seen far more of 'luxury' players who don't really get stuck in such as Son, Sissoko, Eriksen, yet we aren't conceding more goals. Do we need our attacking mids to track back and close down with a back 7 as good as it gets at this level? True, Lamela's work rate is second to none, as is his commitment, but when Son went through that purple patch early in the season whose name was first on the 'drop him for Son' sheet? Lamela, for the simple reason that, as I said: he is excellent at doing everything apart from the things we bought him to do. Even the goals he does score for us (in the league) are more or less pointless: IIRC last season (his best yet) he got goals in the routs against B'mouth, City, United and then the consolation in the end of season shaming up in Newcastle. The only goal he scored all season which I would categorise as 'essential' was the opener in the away game at Watford. So in other words, significantly more points were won for us last season by goals from Mason, Chadli and even Danny Rose than Erik Lamela.

I'm happy to give him the rest of this season to take it up a level from last year as I am a massive, massive fan. Seeing his passion and commitment is a breath of fresh air in the prima donna era of football. But if he ends the season with another handful of pretty useless goals, enough is enough as far as I'm concerned. We can and must be more ambitious.

 

The trouble is SOS that like too many in today's society you tend not to be clear in what you are saying

 

That surprises me, I always think of him as inconsistent. Brilliant at times but not often enough but I suppose the same could be said for Coutinho until this season.

 

Lamela's a bit of a weird one though mate. He doesn't match up statistically with Eriksen and like you say he's nothing like the player he was meant to replace but his general impact on the pitch seems to lift players and that can be vital in the team getting results - even if he's not the one grabbing the limelight with the winning goal/ key assist, his hard work over the pitch can allow other players the chance to shine, for example if he chases back, wins the ball, lays it to Eriksen/ Alli for them to then pass it on for an assist to Kane, Lamela won't get the recognition for that but we all know it was that hard work that got us the goal.

Not that I'm saying he's anywhere near the level of the player but if you remember when Modric was with us, his stats were actually ****, usually got like 4 assists and 3 or 4 goals but we as Spurs fans all knew he was still one of the best players in Europe due to the way he made our whole team tick, every player seemed twice/ thrice as good when he played. I feel Lamela has that sort of impact on the side, obviously not to the same level but his presence has been sorely missed at times and I look forward to his return.

I think replacing him could be very risky, while like Eriksen he can drift out of games, we still know that more often than not he's a very good player for us and key to Poch's style of play (he's probably the most 'Pochettino' player we have), you say we can be more ambitious but we could also do a lot, lot worse than Erik Lamela.

 

It kind of did and didn't surprise me. I appreciate he can be frustrating when he goes missing in periods for us lot but then I sort of remember that come the end of each season, he's usually in our top 3 goal scorers and has remained our top "assister" since joining, it outlines how key he's been. Even in what's been a pretty dreadful season for him so far he's still contributed towards 9 goals (5 scored, 4 assisted) in his 21 games in all comps.

Attacking mids probably come under a lot more scrutiny than other players anyway due to the fact they're usually a go-to guy in the side with a lot of eyes on their performance, if Eriksen/ Coutinho/ Ozil fail to score a goal or assist for a couple of games they're instantly lambasted yet when the season closes and you see their stats, you realise just how brilliant these sort of players are and how lucky us, you and Arsenal fans are for having them.

Don't get me wrong though, it'd be lovely if ours could up his consistency!

 

For me a playmaker should be the one who rattles the opposition...brings a few men onto him, slips some beauties with the dead ball into danger areas. I'm always in shock when he manages to get one over the first man..his free kicks are in the danger areas from time to time...but that whip isn't wicked enough, that pace isn't scary enough. He should be putting defences on arses. That kind of playmaker is the one that will take us a level up. Games where we are a goal down...he should be sticking out like a sore thumb as the player who is trying to get a an Equalizer at all costs...a bit of directness. Pepper the goal with shots, get rowdy...demand the ball....he plays in the perfect position to do all this. The guy has no fire in him for me.

To be quite frank 4 assists in 21 for our playmaker is a poor return. His stats are not bad...but I don't think our playmaker should be someone who's not that bad. Not if we are always dreaming about CL and winning the league or consistently challenging top 4....performances are on par with Spurs as a team. Threatening...but not quite got it.....plenty barking, no biting...the odd nibble maybe.

I'd buy Defoe in January and stick Kane behind him...Eriksen can sit on the bench and let it hurt him a bit.

 

I've long said that Kane is probably the best number 10 at the club. His vision, range of passing, intelligence, fight and most importantly his goal threat would make him an absolute nightmare in deeper positions. The problem is that we have no-one to take his placr up front. Janssen may become that player but right now doesn't look nearly mobile or clever enough to suit the role.

And I agree with you in principle: we have indluged Eriksen and Lamela for over 3 years now. The latter has seen exceptional levels of patience from the fans, probably due to the fact that his heart has been on his sleeve since day 1. But we just cannot afford passengers anymore. If our AM's (I include Alli and Son in this) put in one good performance per month and go missing for a few weeks at a time, it simply isn't good enough.

I get that both will be hard to replace but there is clearly room for improvement in that area and fear of the unknown shouldn't suffocate our ambition. Unless of course the true extent of that ambition is Wilfried Zaha, in which case we should definitely stick not twist.

 

You say there's a style of playmaker who'd level us up but who exactly could that be? I personally believe he's one of the best in the world in his position, I'd say there's only a handful of playmakers that are better and they're already at sides better than us.

He finished second to Ozil last season in the assists chart, beating the likes of Payet, Silva, de Bruyne and Coutinho - all of whom get much more recognition for being great playmakers.

Even this campaign, where he's been ****e for most of it by his usual standards, the top assister in the league so far is de Bruyne with 7, just a few more than Eriksen's 4. I think that speaks volumes in that he still manages to stay near the top having played so below par.