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Match Day Thread Time to look at our defence 2023/2024

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by LuisDiazgamechanger, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    Update - defence is still ****.
     
    #641
  2. Prince Knut

    Prince Knut GC Thread Terminator

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    Have to say that the clean sheets against Everton and City turned out to be an illusion. I really did think we'd turned a corner going into the new year, but two points from nine says otherwise. And our two full backs are just as guilty too - we can sort of forgive Milner, as the alternative is Moreno, but Clyne has become ****e too now. Okay, he's carrying an injury, and this shows the paucity of our squad, but we knew what the squad issues were in the summer transfer market, and we know what they are in this window. I suspect though that we'll rectify this problem in the next summer transfer window, and when different issues occur in looking forward to next season we'll congratulate ourselves that we've addressed the problems of the season before. That's what we do - remember buying a plan B the season after we needed one for the run-in of 2014?
     
    #642
  3. SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING

    SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING Well-Known Member

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    Our starting 11 is good. Everyone knows their role, as soon as you remove one or more of them and shuffle the pack, we are found wanting.

    Mane missing removed Lallana from midfield. It also screwed up the whole right side of midfield. There's no excuse for yesterday's defending but we have missed Couthino, Mane, Matip and Hendo in January and its showed. We should have more depth than that. Period.
     
    #643
  4. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Boom!
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    We when start a game knowing we'll have to defend we do it well. We seem complacent against sides when should be beating, teams that park the bus and then counter us.

    I'd argue it's the mentality in midfield that's the problem. In trying to break down the opposition defence, our midfield all become attackers and forget to keep the door guarded. It's difficult to switch between attack and defensive modes.

    I still think we just need a dedicated DM sat there.
     
    #644
  5. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Boom!
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    I find some of Klopp's thinking a bit frustrating at times (only natural, not going to agree worth everything he does)...

    For example, Clyne was injured for the Man Utd game so TAA played. Klopp was asked about Moreno playing LB with Milner switching to RB. Klopp's reason for not doing this was that it would disturb two positions rather than just one.

    All well and good as it seems sensible / reasonable. However, heres my issue...

    Mane missing from RW? Least move Lallana there to cover.

    Is that not effecting two positions...?
     
    #645
  6. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    Our attackers are brilliant at defending from the front.

    Our midfielders are generally hard working and provide stability.

    Our defence has been **** since 2009.

    With the exception of Matip, Gomez and TAA, id happily sell the rest.

    Milner is just not a left back and isn't as good as people have made him out to be. He's scored a few penalties which masks his performances but he doesn't make big howlers so he looks like an improvement.

    Klavan is just a back up.

    Lovren is just a rotten apple who is arguably the worst defender I have seen. People say he has improved - it's been marginal but this guy should not be at this club. He's so lucky that a lot of the media don't pick up on his errors. The clearest bias was evident against united when he was given MoM even though he was at fault for 2 clear chances in the first half - and Neville blamed Klavan!

    Clyne offers nothing up front, relies heavily on his pace to mask his positional errors and he's arguably the worst defender in the league when battling aerial duels. He's a good squad option at least.

    I just can't believe we haven't looked to resolve this asap.
     
    #646
  7. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Boom!
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    #agenda

    Are you seriously saying you're better at assessing defensive errors than Gary Neville...?


    Milner had a couple of shocking moments yesterday where he gave the ball away before driving in in an attempt to retrieve it. Fair enough you'd think, however, he left our LB area completely exposed as a result. You can not dice in when playing a defensive role!!!
     
    #647
  8. SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING

    SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING Well-Known Member

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    Let's be honest. Everyone gave the ball away yesterday. Clyne did it repeatedly. Hendo also. It was a ****ty all round performance which simply unmasked our defensive fragility. Burnely showed everyone else how to play against us early in the season. If we don't get an early goal against packed defences, we struggle.
     
    #648
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  9. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    But watch that Mkhi chance in the United game - Lovren was completely out of position and played him onside but Neville blamed Klavan?? And the pogba chance when Lovren charged up and left space in behind him. And then look at yesterday - Carroll ran in a straight line and it fooled Lovren lol!! That was bizarre.

    I don't profess to know more than Neville but that was so clear. The problem is most people take everything that pundits say as gospel. Gerrard was once said Joe Cole is as good as Messi. There are a number of occasions where Clyne and Milner push forward and get caught out but no one brings it up but I guarantee if it was Moreno, there would be articles all week - it's so selective and 'agenda' driven.

    The English media are so poor at picking up basic defensive errors but focus on the big howlers. It's why players like Toure and Sakho were heavily criticised for us even though their basic defending was solid. The funniest thing is that pundits say he looks dodgy on the ball but rarely mention how effective he actually was - and somehow, looking dodgy on the ball meant that he was a poor defender - abilities on the ball and as a defender are two separate issues.

    And in Milners defence - he's not a LB and he's done well in that context. He's not been any worse than Moreno <ok>
     
    #649
  10. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    Hmm I disagree somewhat - when we have our first XI, we have broken down some stubborn defences. The biggest issue now is that we have lost the balance which made us successful because it helped mask some frailties.
     
    #650

  11. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    I do believe that Klopp has shifted to 433 instead of his trusted 4231 is because he wants more protection for the back 4.

    The issue he is facing is finding the right combination and balance.

    Can Gini Hendo is good against the big teams where we need to be solid in the midfield. In other games, we need more creativity and the 3 above are too similar.
     
    #651
  12. LuisDiazgamechanger

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    Until all our players learn that they are all part of the defence we are going no where. We cannot blame Simon Mignolet for any of the goals conceded.
    The first goal Lovern should be blamed for putting the ball for corner,
     
    #652
  13. Solid_Air 2

    Solid_Air 2 Well-Known Member

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    FFS Jimmy my loony Border Collie wouldn't be any worse than Moreno after all whilst brainless she is also (very) quick <laugh>
     
    #653
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  14. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    Does your border collie have a better hair cut as well?
     
    #654
  15. Solid_Air 2

    Solid_Air 2 Well-Known Member

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    thats a tricky one considering she broke the ice on a giant puddle this morning and the decided to not only lie down whilst having a drink but roll in the puddle which it turned out was very muddy.
    Nah it's not tricky yep much better haircut <laugh>
     
    #655
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  16. SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING

    SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, sometimes we have and our first 11 is a match for anyone for sure....But how often have we, or any team, had their first 11? You gotta be a Leicester kinda lucky for that to happen for most of the season. Take one piece of the jigsaw out and we toil a little. We have a good first 11 and perhaps 3 or 4 players away from a great squad. It takes time though...look at the deadwood that Klopp has got rid of and there's more to go. Just hope the right players become available and that they want to join us <ok>
     
    #656
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  17. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    Yep agreed - we lost players like Mane and Coutinho, but then we lost Firmino and Lallana when we moved out of their best positions.
     
    #657
  18. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Boom!
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    I think he's shifted because he thinks it suits the players better. We don't have a pairing to play the two in a 4231
     
    #658
  19. Prince Knut

    Prince Knut GC Thread Terminator

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    Collies can be trained to do highly complex tasks. Moreno can't.
     
    #659
  20. Solid_Air 2

    Solid_Air 2 Well-Known Member

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    Fixed
     
    #660

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