Off Topic The Politics Thread

You think? Successive UK governments already had the scope to reduce the benefits paid to freeloading unemployed immigrants from the EU. They just chose not to bother implementing anything. They also had the scope to reduce immigration of non-EU people and failed to meet their self-declared goals. I don't think you can rely on Brexit to change any of that.

To be open about it, though - I've no problem with controlling immigration of people coming to live and work in the UK. The issue for me is that it has (so far) been one of the underlying principles of being in the EU and I have (a) no desire to see the UK beggared by its own act of leaving and (b) no positive signs or plans or rational proposals from people supporting Brexit that point (a) will not happen. All I hear are statements of faith, much like religious statements of faith. If the UK could stay in the EU and yet control immigration I wouldn't have a problem.

Academic, really, because it seems like we won't really be leaving.

 

So, Sarah Champion, MP for Rotherham where 1,400 young girls were groomed and raped by largely British born Muslim men of Pakistani origin, a pattern duplicated in a depressing number of other towns and cities across the U.K., is forced to resign from the Labour front bench for drawing attention to this fact.

Her boss, one J. Corbyn, says you can't single out one community and 'much crime is committed by white people'. Which seems to be singling out one community to me.

In turn, this makes me want to grab him by the neck and yell in his face 'how the **** are we going to be able to do anything about this **** when twats like you refuse to recognise there is a clear and specific root to it, due to your pathetic, outdated and plain wrong ideology?'

Once again he has a huge amount in common with Trump, especially ignorance.

 

On this issue, Sarah really has been a Champion and spoken out about what dark practices are occurring within the Pakistani community.

She should not have been sacked. Corbyn simply wants more electoral votes, and if that stifles honest debate and leads to more racist rapes of young white girls, then for him, that's a price worth paying. What a disgusting man he is.

 

...and Elvis serves behind the counter in my local chippie...

Of course, you're right about how immigration has been handled in the past, but it's such a big issue now, whatever government is in power will know they're being judged on it, and will have UKIP at their shoulder if they fail.

I'm entirely comfortable with transition arrangements. It's pragmatic, and after all, when we leave, we leave for good, not for a three year period. We can have a good, working relationship with the declining market in Europe (it's right that EU citizens shouldn't need a visa when they come here on holiday) and be free to trade with the emerging markets in the rest of the world in an unfettered manner. What's not to like?

 

I think you overestimate his cynicism. It seems to me that he genuinely believes that any appalling action by an individual or group or 'community' that he thinks are 'oppressed' in any way are excusable, and in some cases deserve support. Which is much more scary that trying to manipulate groups into voting for him.

The Aussies, Kiwis and Canadians have already picked up on the fact that EU nationals, if the government's plans are accepted, won't need visas to work in the U.K., just permits applied for by their employers. The old white commonwealth wants the same for their citizens, who currently need visas and permits, and the Indians have already raised this issue. Presumably once the precedent is set this will be part of all the fantastic new trade deals with countries big and small, from Asia, Africa, the Americas (in fact anywhere but Europe) that 'Dr' Fox is pretending to be working on simultaneously.

 

He's confused and wrong about this (amongst much else). Pointing out that groups of men from similar backgrounds and social circles can get together and do something illegal, when it's clear that this is exactly what has happened, is not a reason to censure Ms Champion.

She wasn't saying all Muslim men of (mainly) Pakistani origin are doing it - just that it was a common factor for the ones who were. I'm always suspicious when someone (usually based on irrational fear) slags off an entire race or religion because some people who fit into those categories have done something despicable.

There was a point where I thought Corbyn might actually have some substance to him and be able to lead the Labour Party somewhere worthwhile. I don't see it any more. That'll please you, Goldie...

 

We'll have to disagree on Corbyn. He knows what he needs to get power, and doesn't want a Blairite moderate (who previously resigned as a shadow minister after a vote of no confidence against him) alienating an important part of his support in the North.

Incidentally, looking at Wiki, Champion is no angel. She was Corbyn's Minister for Preventing Domestic Abuse, and later it was revealed she had been cautioned by police for beating up her husband... You couldn't make it up

 

We're the fifth biggest economy in the world, with excellent historic links with important potential trade partners. The trade deals will come once we've been unshackled.

 

With preferential treatment for the nationals of our trade partners?

 

These are not the first trade deals signed between nations. There's a big world outside Europe where nations sign deals with each other. There will be precedents to assist.

 

I feel genuinely sorry for the moderates in the Labour Party. Ironically, it was Theresa May that stuffed them royally when she made such a cock-up of her election campaign.

 

So much negativity all the time.

Christ, however did we manage before the wonderful EU?
(By the way, Fox did work as a Doctor and a civilian army medical officer before becoming an MP)

 

They'll have to sort their own problems out. Luckily, I'm not a natural Labour voter - I just prefer some of their policies to the Conservatives take on certain things. It's true what you say about Mrs May though - she's achieved two things by having the election campaign she had...

1. Scraped through by the skin of her teeth (a success of sorts for her), but without the mandate she needed to stare down at the alt-right hardliners within her party (a failure for her, success for them), yet...
2. Managed to keep Mr Corbyn in his job and possibly make life easier for the Conservatives for a while (a success of sorts).

 

What we really need is a Union Jack smiley face emoji to keep us positive. If you want to present a counter argument, like Goldie, be my guest.

Regarding 'Dr' Fox, he trained to be a doctor for seven years, at the taxpayers expense, graduating in 1983. He practiced as a GP for a whole 4 years (salary paid by the taxpayer) before becoming an MP in 1987. Since then he has been paid by the taxpayer as an MP and cabinet minister, been caught cheating his expenses to the tune of £22k on mortgage repayments, and had to resign as a minister for inviting one of his mates to government meetings (only defence ones though, nothing sensitive). Despite living off the public for his entire adult life he is (somehow) a millionaire.

Trust me I'm a doctor. I don't think so Liam, you haven't practiced for 30 years and you are demonstrably dishonest.

And yes I know similar scum can be found in the other parties as well.

 

With lots of "wonderful" wars.

 

There's plenty of positive news out there, you simply choose to ignore it.
Most MPs cheated on their expenses, it was the "done" thing and most thought it was a legitimate way to top up their wages. I don't condone it however!!
It would probably be quicker to look up how many MPs didn't cheat on their expenses.

The old Nationalism dig is wearing a little thin now.
As for a counter argument, I have done my fair share. I can't be arsed anymore.

It would appear that you would rather Brexit failed just so that you can say that you were right all along. Quite sad that.

 

Deary me!

 

Everyone cheats on expenses, I did! On my first dinner in 1981with clients in NY we spent $1200, a fortune. The way we got around it was we got 6 bills for the evening and put them in over the next 6 months or so.