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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. Bwood_Ranger

    Bwood_Ranger 2023 Funniest Poster

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    I'm not so sure. I really don't see us leaving the EU making anyone who previously was happy to operate here less so. We've still got a fantastic Financial sector. If operating in the UK is the most profitable way, people will continue to do it IMO. I doubt there's much sense of loyalty to the EU from other European businesses.
     
    #21
  2. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    I fear the economic debate will be lost in the noise over immigration. We are only having the referendum in the first place because Cameron and his advisors saw it as a way to avoid losing support to UKIP - they didn't expect to have to deliver on the promise.
     
    #22
  3. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    I think there is a very practical issue Watford around immigration - if we close our borders(ish) and remove welfare etc rights for immigrants we do let in (shouldn't be a problem as presumably we only let them in if they have a job or a skill in an area where we are short i.e. all of them) what happens to the 2.5m Brits living in other EU countries benefitting from current rules? Interesting that these people will not be allowed to vote in the referendum.

    On the economic side I am sure that the UK would lose inward investment from multinationals, unless we offered them outrageous tax breaks or specialised as a low labour cost economy. I think the comparisons with Norway, Switzerland etc are fair ones, but it should be remembered that these are small, and not very industrial countries, and that their membership of the trade zone is predicated on them accepting EU rules, over which they have no say.
     
    #23
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015
  4. Holden Chinaski

    Holden Chinaski Well-Known Member

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    Probably be staying at the place with the lowest corporation tax. Which ironically is the UK. Why do you think that the major banks are still here versus Europe. It's because it's lower which saves them more money. Plus we will not tax them on transactions.
     
    #24
  5. RichardRanger

    RichardRanger Active Member

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    The companies will go where ever they can make the most profit.
     
    #25
  6. GoldhawkRoad

    GoldhawkRoad Well-Known Member

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    Interesting post, Stan, but I don't believe the forthcoming EU referendum is all about Tory internal politics. Just having the referendum was a vote-winner for the Tories with the public, and Miliband was misguided to refuse it. Indeed, Labour has its own, growing faction that is EU sceptical - and then there are the 4,000,000 UKIP voters.

    I'm leaning to OUT but will keep an open mind, and will watch Cameron's negotiations with the other 27. The power in the EU is obviously Germany which has more influence, not least, being in the euro. The euro looked good for them early on, making it easier to see their goods to other euro member states. As we're seeing in Greece, this is backfiring. And in the euro, Germany is saddled with some other partners with questionable economies particularly in the south eg Italy and Spain where bribery, fraud and tax evasion is endemic - any of these could be the next Greece. Mrs Merkel will not want the UK, the 4th or 5th biggest economy in the world, to leave the EU and this should give Cameron leverage with her. I can't judge yet whether a country like Poland would veto any Cameron/Merkel arrangement for the UK.

    The current chaos at Calais with (mostly) economic migrants is a natural vote winner for Farage, and it could impact the referendum if the EU don't come up with a workable plan promptly.
     
    #26
  7. TimPR78

    TimPR78 Well-Known Member

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    Never mentioned banks specifically, was more on about businesses in general
     
    #27
  8. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    I think that is a bit of a myth Tim. Agree that Europe may get the hump but history shows us that you buy where the product is good. As a country we are one of the major players in Europe and they would miss us if we left. Not all is good in Europe. To say everyone would get up and move their business away from Britain is way off mark. Would you trust your company to have its head office in Greece? This country is good at what it does and all of Europe knows that.
     
    #28
  9. TimPR78

    TimPR78 Well-Known Member

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    I have read in the news over on numerous occasions where businesses have already stated they will be either evaluating their options or leaving the UK, mostly non UK companies. Yes it could be companies trying to influence peoples decisions and media spin but I honestly believe this will happen, the extent I don't know
     
    #29
  10. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    Well the company i work for is a well known British company based in London. It is the best in the World at what it does and every country comes to us for our fantastic product. Never in a million years or all the sand in the Sahara would it pick up sticks and move to somewhere like Spain /Greece/ or wherever, if we left the EU. To say these countries would go elsewhere for our product is ridiculous.

    lets be honest would you rather have banking in Britain or Greece? Would my company trust the Latvia/Bulgaria/Romania's or whoever to produce their product or supply the specialists, the answer is no. in fact, never in a million years.
    The Euro is having a nightmare at the moment and we could actually see Greece leave.
    I am not anti Europe, in fact i think if it was run properly it would be a good thing, however it isn't and something needs to change. All i can say is thank god we were not in the Euro because many who support it wouldn't be now.
     
    #30

  11. Pils-the-hoop

    Pils-the-hoop Active Member

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    Its not about who is in power. It is about the most vulnerable in society having their benefits squeezed - you know disabled people and all that - so that George Osbourne can fund a tax break for the top earners by reducing the top rate to 40%.

    Did you realise that Ian Duncan-Smith is currently in the high courts trying to get a law passed to ensure that the number of disabled people that have died as a direct result of his DWP changes never reaches the public domain?

    I think they are also a little upset at the fact that there as several million children now living in poverty.

    But hey, I guess you are sitting pretty in your ivory tower glued to your Daily Mail so sod 'em eh?<doh>
     
    #31
  12. Pils-the-hoop

    Pils-the-hoop Active Member

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    Smeared?! f@[HASHTAG][HASHTAG]#king[/HASHTAG][/HASHTAG] smeared???!!!! Does the Bullingdon Club mean nothing to you?<doh>
     
    #32
  13. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    It's future investment decisions by companies that are most at risk, they are not going to rip up existing infrastructure and supply/distribution networks overnight. But if a company aim is to sell in the EU, it will always be easier to do that from within the EU than sitting on its edge.

    Would I rather have banking in Britain or Greece? Unfair question the alternative is Germany, and it wouldn't bother me either way, except costs are higher in Germany. The reason we are a financial hub is that transactions are taxed relatively lightly here.

    Agree re the Euro - I am fully behind the concept (it makes perfect sense if your aim is a single market, takes out a chunk of transaction cost and uncertainty around exchange rates. My company is selling 10% more year on year in Japan but earning less due to the devaluation in the Yen, which is infuriating), but it's design and implementation have been incredibly cack handed. Too much too soon.

    Let's be absolutely clear what would happen in the event of an exit. The first trade treaty we would negotiate is with the EU, because it is by far our biggest market. Our aim would be free access to the market, on similar grounds to what we have now. Just like Norway in fact. And if we had the same arrangement as Norway the terms would be acceptance of EU regulations and a contribution to the EU budget - it is estimated that our EU budget contribution would drop by a massive 9% compared to the current full membership cost (and, for example, we would lose the subsidies that make agriculture in Wales and Northern Ireland viable). The other thing we would lose is of course our ability to influence and shape the regulations.

    Let's say we decline this kind of arrangement. Then your company's product would be subject to tariffs on export to the EU, pushing up the price. This creates an opportunity for entrepreneurs in the EU to produce the same stuff (probably not as good) and sell it cheaper. May take them some time, but your competitive position has changed hugely.

    I really don't get the economic argument for Brexit at all.

    The immigration argument is stronger in terms of the impact of EU immigration on UK infrastructure, but these immigrants are net contributors to our economy through tax.

    Col's position of principle, not wanting to be governed from afar/cede sovereignty to others, is the one that is most understandable, though I don't agree with it personally.
     
    #33
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  14. GoldhawkRoad

    GoldhawkRoad Well-Known Member

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    Define poverty...
     
    #34
  15. Pils-the-hoop

    Pils-the-hoop Active Member

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    There is a child at my daughters school whose mother (single) works at our local college. It is now the college holidays and being on a zero hours contract she is not entitled to any pay during this time

    The DWP stopped her benefits in error the moment she got this work (which was sporadic at best).

    She is now in dire straits having had no income at all for several months.

    Her daughter currently has no access to heating or hot water ( utility company cut off her supply ), her neighbours and my family are feeding her and supplying her with clothes and shoes.

    The CAB have been little help but their family GP has said he will refer them to a food bank with vouchers for 3 days worth of food.

    Unfortunately, they cant cook any of the food as they have no gas.

    Tories would label them " benefit scroungers" but they are working.

    Would that ****ing count???!!!!
     
    #35
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  16. Bwood_Ranger

    Bwood_Ranger 2023 Funniest Poster

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    #36
  17. Bwood_Ranger

    Bwood_Ranger 2023 Funniest Poster

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    Erm, I don't read the Mail and I earn a decent wage for someone my age but nothing spectacular.

    Taxes at the top end should be cut. There's absolutely nothing to suggest higher taxes at the top end increase the tax revenue generated. Where the optimum level is is difficult to say but pre-Thatcher, income taxes on the rich were incredibly punitive and it just encourages tax avoidance and discourages those high earners to put the graft in that earns them, and the economy, the big bucks.
     
    #37
  18. Pils-the-hoop

    Pils-the-hoop Active Member

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    I suggest you read up about David Cameron, Boris Johnson and George Osbournes involvement in the Eton boys Bullingdon Club my friend.

    please log in to view this image


    You right in one way though as i cant see any ****ing monocles!
     
    #38
  19. Pils-the-hoop

    Pils-the-hoop Active Member

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    But not funded by those at the bottom!!
     
    #39
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  20. Deleted 1

    Deleted 1 Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

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    WTF????? Who the hell has sanctioned that?
     
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