The Canary Dave

This board no - but the government most certainly has.

And just out of interest, can you point to the part in my post that you've misunderstood as my acceptance and excusing of the murder of children?

 

Well, if you cannot deplore/condemn the murder of children in this country, what would you call your view? Meekly ignoring it? turning a blind eye to it? just tut tutting into your tea?
The vile creature that carried out this act was born in this country to parents who fled persecution in Libya as his father was an opponent to Gaddafi and sought asylum here. With Gaddafi gone, his father was safe to return and it seems he is there now - so why would someone whose family were provided safety turn against this country? It's not because of Syria or Yemen, it's because they want to destroy anything that is not Islam - what better place to start than the children of the infidels. So stop excusing his actions and trying to make political capital out of it. Check out the Labour Party and the Biafran war - also see the net result now in Nigeria.

 

So you conveniently, obviously to suit your own narrative, ignore half of my post and put your own spin on it? Please don't waste my time.

And please don't accuse me of making 'political capital' - I've done no such thing, having made no mention whatsoever of any political party - you're the one who jumped in with that. Equally, I've made no effort to 'excuse' anyone's actions - I simply pointed out the truth that the UK government are equally to blame, and if you can't see that, that's your problem. Just as is your obvious distaste for Islam.

 

I did not ignore any of your narrative. I carefully explained why in this case any reference to Syria or Yemen was irrelevant because this odious creature had no connection to them and also made it clear that this country gave his family a place of safety. Are you saying that you do not believe that such a person should not have any compassion to the ordinary children of this country and it's understandable that he carried out such a barbaric act in whatever name he carried it out in? He did not target the government, he did not target the army or the police, he did not target some strategic infrastructure - he targeted children. Nations do not deplore and condemn, its people do - so if you cannot deplore the deliberate targeting of children just enjoying a night out that is for your conscience.
In another post you posted another in your series of anti-Tory images - this clearly draw a parallel between voting Tory, the NHS and Monday nights murders. You might not have mentioned another party, but as it could have nothing to do with the SNP, it hardly leads anything to the imagination considering you often stated hatred of Tories.
I have a distaste of anyone murdering in the name of any cause, whether that's religion, politics, sexual preferences, opinion on abortion rights etc.

 

You have talked a lot about the bomber w_y, but have you said anything about how you can move towards a country, any country, where such dreadful events become a thing of the past?

I did read the posts made on here earlier, several times, and did not see any suggestion that anyone was condoning the action of the bomber. If they had I would have asked them to withdraw it.

 

But it most certainly was relevant. UK government complicity in murderous attacks on the people of Yemen & Syria were simply a follow-on from similar in Libya – attacks which, in essence, were Right wing vs Left wing, attacks all fuelled by the desire to make money regardless of the cost, attacks which have led to thousands of deaths in streets, in homes, in schools, in hospitals and attacks in which this country had no right to be involved. That’s the crux of my argument – there is simply no way that you or anyone else can definitively say that his actions were fuelled by xyz rather than by naked aggression on the part of the British against selected Arab nations. To lay the blame at the door of Islam, as you have done, is a nonsense – it being a religion which promotes peace and tolerance in far greater quantities than does Christianity.

I’m simply not entirely sure how you can square away this with your claim to “have a distaste of anyone murdering in the name of any cause”.

 

We have to end all hatred...we have all been discussing it here in Greece... Nationalism Racism Fundamentalism.. All spread divisineness and sow hatred. There is hate, or even evil, in humanity and we may work to end it. If we are to survive as a species we cannot promote enmity. It is saddening to see the way we can end up with abuse and anger between us in here. I hope we all want a good life for all people. At least do treat each other with respect on this thread

 

Neither has anyone else, just the usual hand wringing and justification seeking. I would have plenty of suggestions as to how we could make the streets of my country safer. But there is no political solution to IS.
I have never written that anyone condoned the murder of children, but the fact that some cannot condemn it and actually seek to justify it based on their dislike of the British Government. I wonder if they would feel the same way if a Christian exploded a nail bomb in a UK Madrasa full of children because of the slaughter of Coptic Christians in Africa?

 

It is not relevant to this individual, his family were given a place of safety in this country, he and his siblings were educated in this country. When the civil war in Libya (with the support of Nato - not the UK) removed Gadaffi, his family could once again visit and stay in Libya. What has that got to do with Yemen or Syria? If he felt so strongly about what you believe the UK is doing in those countries, then he should have gone and waged war in one of those countries and not wage war on children.
Again, I have not laid the blame at the door of Islam, I have blamed the coward that did this in the name of Islam and his goals.

 

There has to come a time when governments around the world come together to fight the evil of IS, and they will when they sit down and calculate what it is costing them in cash terms. No individual country can do it on its own, despite what Trump thinks. We have seen today him being rebuked by the UK government for letting out our intelligence information. The FN stood in the Presidential election here on an anti-immigration, anti-Islam, anti-EU platform and were roundly seen off by a man without an established party who promised to bring left, right and center politicians together. What is being created is very similar to what happened in N.Ireland twenty years ago, when terrorists from both sides were persuaded to put down their arms, and talk rather than fight. Is that a weak solution if it saves lives?
It will not be all roses for Macron, but he has put together something approaching a government of national unity. The UK government reels from one crisis to the next. Police numbers shredded, no defence to speak of because of underfunding, NHS, social care, no need to go on, so maybe something better could happen if there were to be something similar to France happen in the UK.. I doubt that it will come about soon, the crisis will have to get deeper before everyone see which path is being trod.

 

Some governments have come together to fight IS. The US, UK and other governments are supporting the rebels in Syria and the Peshmerga and Iraq to fight IS in Syria and Iraq. They are training them and arming them. Bearing in mind that the Syrian rebels are also fighting Assad (supported by Russia) - is this considered an acceptable position in Syria?

 

OK you lovely people, I'm off to bed!

Night all

Night H

 

Night all... Perhaps some of the debate above can go to another thread...?

 

The UK is doing fine thanks with a strong and stable government which is about to endorsed further by the British public. The last thing Britain needs is a weak government unwilling to take on vested interests. French governments have promised urgently needed reforms for the last 20 years, all have backed off when faced with opposition.

France is extremely politically divided with a strong hard left and hard right. Macron is very unpopular with both left and right. He is set to do well in the national assembly election although only 45% of voters have confidence in Macron and even fewer in prime minister Philippe- the lowest ratings for French leaders starting their terms in over 20 years. The honeymoon period will be short.

Fortunately the UK electorate are more sophisticated than their French counterparts, they will re-elect the Tories with an increased majority.

 

Doesn't all of this belong on the politics threads - we have enough of them.

 

Do you have a Gulf Stream flowing over your head or something? Of course it's relevant - or are you saying that when terrorist activity struck Paris, Berlin, Marseille, Stockholm, Nice, Brussels etc you didn't 'stand in solidarity' with our European neighbours? Do you therefore expect no solidarity amongst Arab nations?

If you seriously believe that UK played no part in the removal of Gadaffi - or should I say illicit removal of Gadaffi - whose stated goal was political union in the Arab world, then you really do have some reading to do.

 

It surely does, but sadly, I have no idea how to transfer it...

 

Solidarity amongst the Arab Nations? You must be on that Gulf Stream if you believe there is any such thing. Different Muslm sects, different tribes, different races, hundreds of years of conflicts between them - yeah real solid.
Removal of Gadaffi was part of the much vaunted Arab Spring - just look where that got Egypt and Tunisia.Your agenda will always blame the UK for the ills of the world.

 

I think that Cologne was just asking to post on the other thread not asking you to transfer yours and other peoples comments. As maybe not everyone wants to see Political comments that in the past has gone OTT and then people leave because of nothing to do with Watford (im very please to see some come back not you Andy LOL)

 

Can we move all this onto one of the political threads please? I visit this page to get away from that stuff and to read about more pleasant, or personal (e.g. Barry's latest softball game, Frenchies building saga and so on.

Not this stuff. Poisoning the well.