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Match Day Thread The best players who left since SAF retired ?

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Christiansmith, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. Swarbs

    Swarbs Well-Known Member
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    Calm down mate, no need to get wound up. Selling RVP and Welbeck was a mistake - you'd have to ask LVG why he did that as he didn't see fit to consult me ;)

    Not sure what Jan 1st week has to do with anything - you do realise the season ends in May, right?
     
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  2. ArtisanWenger

    ArtisanWenger Active Member

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    We will have a far better picture of the league,your abilities in relative to others..like say if you are some 10 to 12 points off the top 4...you can be very sure you wnt be top 4.
     
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  3. Chief

    Chief Northern Simpleton
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    This is not true. Made up 'fact' alert.

    Are you glazerfodder in disguise?
     
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  4. Swarbs

    Swarbs Well-Known Member
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    Aye, if we do end up 10 to 12 points off the top 4 then it will be a struggle. But the EL doesn't resume until mid February, so still no need to give up on the league in Jan.

    Weren't you guys top of the league in Jan 2014 only to finish 4th? And the season before you were way outside the top four in Jan, but ended up only a few points behind City and Chelsea. Collapses and runs like that can happen at any time - stupid to make assumptions at the halfway stage.
     
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  5. Red Hadron Collider

    Red Hadron Collider The Hammerhead

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    I reckon you and Chief should set up camp on our board. In all seriousness, this board appears to be, to all intents and purposes, dead. It used to be nearly as busy as ours, so I've no idea what's going on, unless it's just a function of the way it's going for you at the moment. This is NOT a WU, by the way.
     
    #25
  6. ArtisanWenger

    ArtisanWenger Active Member

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    Really?Has the team not been better and nore fluid and he himself been more productive with the minutes he gets?Otherwise he wnt be dropped right?
     
    #26
  7. Chief

    Chief Northern Simpleton
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    If you can show me, as glazer has resounding failed so far to do, where we have improved significantly when Rooney hasn't played I'll accept it. We haven't.

    He is not our problem. Our problem lies with a poor defence and too many similar players vying for the same positions and ending up out of position. Some of our most dreadful performances have been when he's nowhere near the side. Our last performance, against Swansea, was a decent away win and he was the best player on the pitch.
    It's not about Rooney, it's about playing the best players in their actual positions and sorting out the defence. If as a result of the formation being sorted he does not play then so bit it, but he is not the problem.

    I thought this argument was dead, it's clearly just been resurrected by someone equally as ill informed as those who started it first time.
     
    #27
  8. ArtisanWenger

    ArtisanWenger Active Member

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    Hmmm okay,what do you think is your best lineup not for the game this weekend but general starting 11 if you were to select it?

    I would go with:

    De Gea

    Valencia Smalling Baily Blind

    Herrera Carrick/Fellaini(Since carrick has played so little)Pogba

    Mikhitaryan Rashford Mata

    A 433 with 2 box to box midfielders in herrera and pogba.Mikhtaryan has been mismanaged as hell,initially he is allowed to play last 5 min of games and then after an injury he is played against mancity and given his start..he should be allowed to start in a position amf or rmf/rwf for 3 games and give a chance.

    There is no denying Rooney was in poor form initially and that was a problem,besides him playing meant Mikhitaryan cannot play amf and his style of play is such that if ibra drops back he wont run ahead either and he blocks pogba getting in to the difference making zone as well and stagnates it,while a mata or Mikhitaryan would run in to take shots and score..also especially mata will move cleverly away if pogba arrive but rooney tries to be there all the time like hes bloody ****ing zidane and he isnt so they can use hik as the permanent pivot there.
     
    #28
  9. Chief

    Chief Northern Simpleton
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    Considering we're playing Arsenal why would Mikhytarian suddenly get thrown in? And why would you have Mata on the left?

    This is exactly my point. Throwing players in the side out of position, it's ridiculous.

    Personally I'd go 4 3 3.

    As Bailly is injured then it would be Rojo and Jones at centre half as, bar Blind, they are the two fit players we have, with Valencia and Shaw as full backs.

    the midfield three would be Herrera Mata and Pogba, with Mata the advanced of the 3.

    The front three would be Rooney (left) Martial middle and Rashford/Lingard. Although it's fairly obvious Zlatan will play so might as well just accept that, Martial would then drop out or move to the right instead of Rashford/Lingard.

    a 4 2 3 1 would be same defence, Pogba and Herrera as the 2, Rooney, Mata and Rashford/Martial/Lingard as the 3 and Zlatan up front.
     
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  10. ArtisanWenger

    ArtisanWenger Active Member

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    Like i very clearly not for our game in the weekend,Mata always plays well for you and is your most consistent player..Him on the left will give you some width which you have been sorely lacking.

    If you play herrera and pogba together you would be reducing boths efficiency as they cant calibrate their turns to defend and attack and both are best for the team as box to box might as well let them do that and cover them with a carrick or schneiderlin.

    I told you why rooneynis a problem if he plays at amf,you have not responded,rooney on the wings if he is effective he can be there as he has made some assits and stuff,he can both provide and score...he seeemed to have lost his legs to play on the wing but as you guys say if he is making a difference so be it.

    Zlatan will start unfortunates as you said,mikhi needs a run of games,i understand it being arsenal youndnt want hin thrown in,i asked for a general best 11 and he would be in there.

    De gea

    Valencia Smalling Rojo Shaw

    Herrera Blind Pogba

    Mata Zlatan Rooney

    Against us and

    De Gea

    Valencia Smalling Baily Shaw

    Blind can well be the solution that can screen and pass it to let two box to box midfielders

    Herrera and Poba to wreck havoc

    Mikhitaryan Zlatan Rooney

    Should be your general starting 11 then all things considered
     
    #30

  11. Chief

    Chief Northern Simpleton
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    Blind is there for consideration at the holding defensive midfield position, yes. I'd rather Carrick or Schweinsteiger myself but he is an option.

    Your starting front three against Arsenal I touched on in my post match post in the Swansea thread. They worked well together, definitely, and as there was a clear plan to not play with any width it is a cracking front three, if a little lacking in pace.

    If we do decide to go with actual width though you wouldn't go to Mata and Rooney.

    It's a big problem. We've too many players who would really prefer to be playing through the middle and not enough naturally wide players.

    I've got no argument with Mikhytarian finding his place in the side but it would need to be from off the right, I can't see a way in for him at '10', even though it is claimed this is his best position.

    Similarly, Pogba should play at centre midfield, not be thrown forward into the very congested '10' area.
     
    #31
  12. ArtisanWenger

    ArtisanWenger Active Member

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    Exactly,Pogba needs to play where he plays best and is the best not somewhere else where he can rack up the numbers,the team's success would justify his fee enough,a strong man like jose should recognize that and for that to happen Pogba should be a Central Midfielder who can naturally find his balance between attack and defence for the team...To enable that he needs an effective screener who can also pass and spread saving a spot for Blind or Schneiderlin.

    Zlatan,is going to start due to his status fine and Mikhitaryan will be used on the right due your lack of genuine wingers excellent,then your back 5 picks itself leaving us with a body in midfield and in attack,if you are going to play someone who cuts in then you will have to go with a number 10 or it will be too narrow with herrera in the mix too so that comes up to

    De Gea

    Valencia Smalling Baily Shaw

    Blind Pogba

    Mata

    Mikhitaryan Zlatan Rashford

    With

    Romero

    Darmian Jones Rojo Mcnair/Mensah

    Carrick Herrera

    Rooney

    Depay Rashford Lingard

    Schweinsteiger has been frozen out and so has schneiderlin,this is the best you could come up with but im not sure jose will do so quick enough.

    He personally seems to be fine with De Gea,Valencia,Blind and Baily indefence with fellaini,pogba,Herrera being his favourites in midfield and up front all of mata,rooney,zlatan rashford and lindgard

    So here is what you will have

    De gea

    Valencia Smalling Baily Blind

    Herrera Pogba

    Mata Fellaini Rooney

    Ibra


    And your problems will continue.
     
    #32
  13. Chief

    Chief Northern Simpleton
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    Play the bloke in bold at any time and our problems will indeed continue.

    Keep that formation and swap him for Mikhytarian and maybe it would work though.

    There was no Martial in any of your possible sides though, which is weird to say the least.
     
    #33
  14. Red Hadron Collider

    Red Hadron Collider The Hammerhead

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    You're flogging a dead horse, mate. Like I said, you may as well come over to our board. Diego and Treble are there nearly all the time <laugh>
     
    #34
  15. ArtisanWenger

    ArtisanWenger Active Member

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    Because he too has been rejected by jose for now,temporarily atleast,i love martial and was jealous,but you have to agree jose has hampered his progress this season..he was such free bird that could have flown higher before being reined in and refined.


    I do not know how well or badly he has played this season,maroune fellaini but the dissing by united fans on his is really sad,he was a key to getting you back in the cl and he was again a key for you to win the fa cup but he seems to get zero respect and now he seems also to be the only one who has survived all the managers post fergie.
     
    #35
  16. Chief

    Chief Northern Simpleton
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    I've got nothing against the bloke personally and he certainly puts the effort in so I'm not 'dissing' him at all.

    He's not good enough though. That's the problem, the lack of requisite ability to play for United in the position he occupies.
    He just is not good enough to be considered a first team pick, there's something very wrong that he is.
     
    #36
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  17. ArtisanWenger

    ArtisanWenger Active Member

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    Okay but he seems the one whonhas performed though like in van gaals first season he was your match winner for a stretch of games that propelled you in to the top 4.
     
    #37
  18. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    Starting XI playing ppl in their natural positions.

    4-2-3-1

    F Mensah - Baily - Smalling - Shaw
    -----------------Herrera --- Pogba
    Lingard/Rash-------Mata----------Martial
    -----------------------Rash/Ibrah

    4-4-2

    F Mensah - Baily - Smalling - Shaw
    Valencia-Carrick-Pogba-Young/Martial
    ----------------Rash------Ibrah/Martial

    <ok>

    In each of those, Herrera and Carrick can be changed for each other or Schneiderlin or Schweinsteiger.
     
    #38
  19. Swarbs

    Swarbs Well-Known Member
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    Pretty sure F-M was mainly a CB at youth level. Would like to see him given a chance alongside Baiiiii as that could be a decade long partnership to rival Rio and Vidic or Bruce and Pallister. Tho' it would mean Tony V at right back for this season at least.

    Would definitely like to see Rashford and Tony M either side of Zlatan with Herrera, Pogda and Mata in midfield. That was pretty much the line up when we thrashed Leicester and were all over Stoke, dunno why we haven't seen it since.
     
    #39
  20. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    He's a natural at RB too whenever he played there last season. The alternative is Valencia or Darmian who imo are both worse defensively.

    I think Martial has to play, as does Rashford. And the only time I'd change that is in a 4-4-2 with Valencia or Young.

    I just realised I've forgotten Mkhytarian <doh> Just goes to show how ridiculously good our options are.
     
    #40

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