Sunderland vs Arsenal: Match Thread.

The issue is whether the decision was right or wrong. The game is ruined if the ref gets calls like this wrong. No-one can tell what the result would have been if he had got it right.

 

OK, rephrasing for the nitpicker. It's hard to tell if Sagna denied Altidore a goalscoring opportunity for the same reason. Koscielny could have got the ball on the line or made a challenge if the referee had not blown his whistle, so it wouldn't have amounted to anything anyway.

 

He was through on goal despite being fouled. He would have had a much better chance if he hadn't been.

 

Correct. If you watch it again, you can see that when Koscielny hears the whistle, he slows up which eventually means that he's not on the line in time to clear the ball. If the ref had played on there's every likelihood that he would have been. So the result is that it wasn't a clear cut goalscoring opportunity, and neither was Sagna the last man.

 

I think Sagna was impeded by Altidore. Im watching the highlights I recorded on Sky now so will look for it when I get to that bit.

On another point, the pass to Ozil for his assist was for me even better than what Ozil did. I think it was Gibbs got the ball in a defensive position, looked up and saw Ozil make the run then played a ball perfectly (and I do mean perfectly) in his path in space for him to be able to control it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WapFl5CL6tE

 

If that is true then obviously there is no red card. But I still don't think the ref can give a foul and a yellow in this situation. It simply encourages players to commit this sort of offence as they gain an advantage. Any doubt should be applied in favour of the innocent party. In the long run Arsenal would benefit from such an interpretation of the laws as being a more skillful team than most it is in your interests to have offences harshly punished

 

Sorry, wrong. if you want to go along that line, just how much was Altidore held up. Although I agree Koscieiny slowed up when the whistle was blown. He would have been no where near if Altidore had a clear run and not a chance of catching the ball near the line.

 

It's not just Koscielny either. Without the whistle, would Szczesny have come off his line quicker, would Sagna have stayed with Altidore? Before the whistle, it didn't look like a goalscoring opportunity to me. After, things changed BECAUSE of the whistle.

 

I think Sagna was impeded by Altidore.

 

I've watched that bit now and when the ball is played Sagna and Altidore are just at the edge of the screen. Sagna was goal side and they came together with Altidore using his arm to try to get around Sagna and Sagna holding the arm he is using which carried on until they got to the ball. I think it was a foul by Sagna but Flamini was coming in behind him and stopped when the whistle went and Kos seemed to not react after the whistle went until he realised Altidore had carried on playing, so I don't think it should have been allowed to be a goal or a red card. Would have been extremely harsh on Arsenal if either had been given so I think the ref got it right.

 

Of course you do......just that MOTD, Sky, five live and every neutral in the land doesn't.

 

Who gives a flying fu*k? We won and deservedly so. We'll be on the wrong end of decisions many times this coming season. It all evens itself out.

By the way, why the fu*k is that thick idiot Shearer on MOTD, is he the best a national broadcaster can muster? The guy is as thick as block of bricks....and he's experience of the game is so limited. Tw*t.

 

the pundits on MOTD etc seem to think that the ref should have played advantage instead of blowing his whistle. they are all so clever with hindsight. if the ref sees an infringement and sees NO obvious advantage he then blows his whistle. so he obviously didnt see any advantage. if the ref thinks there is an advantage to be had he may delay, but how long does he delay for ? in these type of instances the ref is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn't.
when you look at the footage it wasnt a clear cut scoring opportunity, so he blew his whistle. anything happening after the whistle is immaterial. if he had kicked it off for a goal kick instead of towards goal then Sunderland fans would have been over the moon with ref for awarding a free kick.
i also saw Hoddle stating that ref should have allowed advantage to be played like as in Rugby. WTF. in Rugby if the ref awards a penalty kick [not a free kick] and signals playing advantage everyone knows whats happening and play continues to see if any advantage is gained by the "fouled" team, and if advantage gained he signals advantage over, and the penalty award is over. if no advantage gained then he goes back to the original offence and play resumes from there, with the fouled team taking there penalty by kicking for goal or for touch. so different rules as different game Glen !!
if Football was to take anything from Rugby i would like to see the ref advance kicks forward by 10 metres everytime he is surrounded by players arguing his decision. in rugby the refs decision is not questioned/argued like in football. i have never seen a ref change his mind after being surrounded by footballers - so why do they do it !!

 

For starters, the tables people produce every season showing the table if refs decisions were corrected normally show Arsenal suffer more than most as a result of wrong decisions so if we got one in our favour we've still go a long way to go until it evens out.

Second, I don't think the ball would have ended up in the net if the advantage had been played as several players stopped for both sides.

Third, when the foul started it was not a goal scoring opportunity as it was when the ball was played.

Fourth, we deserved the win and went on to score again and even if it went to 2-2 I think we would have gone on to win.

 

I know this is funny to say but other than Toledo you have all missed a really important part of the altercation between Sagna and Altidore.

They have there arms together and it appears Sagna is making a foul - Everyone seems agreed on this point.

Now people think the ref should play the advantage - BUT, Altidore pushes Sagna with two hands - That is the only reason they become untangled from each other. A TWO HANDED PUSH is a foul. This is retaliation for the foul by Sagna. The ref cannot play on as Altidore fouls sagna after the initial foul therefor if it is played on then it becomes a free-kick to Arsenal as that is the immediate action after the Sagna foul.

If the rules are followed exactly in this situation Altidore gets a red card for retaliation. I'm not saying that is how the ref should deal with the situation but all you knit-pickers going on about a red card need to realise that if one got handed out it wasn't going to be to Sagna.

Just because you are fouled does not mean you can do what you like to the other player. It is a non-argument, it could never have been a goal as Altidore immedietly fouls Sagna after the foul. THAT is when the ref blows his whistle. You can't watch one player push another and not stop the game. But he rightly allows the free-kick for Sunderland as Sagan commits the foul first.

 

(1) Would like to see a table.....interesting to see top v bottom bias...which (imo) happens a lot. (take Man U pen yesterday)

(2) Defo would have been in the net. Altidore was pulled back to an almost stop and was still on front of the other players when the whistle went.

(3) That's what advantage is for.

(4) Overall, you definitely deserved the win but should have been down to 10. Different ball game altogether.

 

Bloody hell.

Hahahaahahahaha.

 

Cant give a red card for a push. Only for "Striking or attempting to strike..." or "kicking or attempting to kick...", apart from that, "...brutality..." which is going to be hard with a push.

Sagna could have been sent off for the foul, but the referee felt that he was not the last man. But yes, Altidore is not allowed to push Sagna away, even if he was fouled first. That is why the ref blew play up, not because he got it wrong. I think he got a difficult call absolutely correct.

 

What an absolute pile of ****e..There is no way that he slowed down...Just admit that the ref has changed the game in your favour and be glad about it..You lot are beginning to sound like a bunch of Wengers..

 

Once the whistle has been blown it's bloody obvious that the players react to it. Kos is practically looking at the ref whilst he's jogging back to the goal. We got lucky with the decision admittedly, but to say the whistle had no effect on what the players did next is n absolute a pile of ****e.