Still winning whilst not getting out of second gear

Away form more than compensates, what would be moronic would be playing careless attacking football leaving more space for teams to get in behind us, you may not like what Rafa is doing but he has to get us promoted and if that means playing in a more compact way then so be it, it was noticeable against Villa that they really chased us high up the pitch in the first half and made it difficult to get it together, teams coming to SJP are going to do that or defend deep, away matches give us a bit more freedom but still Rafa is doing the job that matters.

 

I can't really see it any other way. What would you suggest we play? Gayle or Mitrovic are up top on their own. Ritchie and Gouff play from deep. They are not around the front man. Diame/Perez drops and have more responsibility defensively than a true No.10. Shelvey and Colback/Hayden are both deep. One a holding player and one a deep lying playmaker. I'm not sure how that set up can be termed anything but defensive counter? Yes Yedlin and Dummett are pressed on at times but you still have two midfielders sitting deep.

I have to say away from home it has worked a treat. I just think we play the same way at home as we do away. The results suggest its not as effective. We have actually picked up more points away in the league and conceded less goals. We rank No.1 on away form, comfortably. Yet in terms of home form we are down in 6th. Its the only reason why we are not clear at the top.

So not only does the set up suggest we are fairly negative, the results seem to back it up.

How many times this season have you seen the opposition have one striker and four of our players in the vicinity? Loads. Its a complete waste of players. What it leads to is unrest in the crowd which leads to disjointed play, which leads to mistakes and counter attack goals. Huddersfield, Wolves, Blackburn, Sheff Wed have all adopted the same tactic successfully. Tactically I think we have it wrong.

The notion that we need to go Keegan gung ho to change this is nonsense to me - there is a happy medium. We just need to tweak a little and be more astute. Its the simple old mentality that if you have players in attacking areas they have to mark them. Don't play with fear, we're at home against inferior sides, we should outscore them. We are giving them an option currently to **** us over. Either have two front men, let your wide players or no.10 cheat somewhat. If teams sit with one loan striker and pace from deep, switch to a 3 at the back to free up others to cause them issues, stretch the game wide. Make them find the solutions to the problems rather than us coming from behind the 8 ball.

What worries me is Rafa has been here for coming up a year. We are no further forward. It may be he thinks "well we can't play that way in the PL as the teams will be better than us, so we might aswell imbed this now" but if you listen to the pros they all say the same thing about playing at St James. Just sit in and the crowd get frustrated. The only way it has ever worked differently is when we attack at home.

 

I disagree and you have misunderstood what I am saying. It would indeed be equally moronic to play "careless attacking football" at home. Indeed we'd probably have similarly average-poor home form (relative to our squad) to what we have now. As above however there is a happy medium. There are not two ways to skin the cat tactically in football so to speak. There are a lot of different ways, such is the beauty of the game.

Without a shadow of a doubt we should be analysing how we improve. Rafa is supposedly renowned for this, never settling. Our away form is stellar and is propping up our season. I'm not suggesting it will happen, but just say we lost the 3 upcoming away games against our nearest rivals. Say we lost them all by the odd goal. Would you say they are terrible results? I wouldn't because they are at home and they are the better teams we would meet. However it would likely have a significant impact on our pursuit of promotion. It might not derail it but it would make it more difficult. So come the end of the season say we end up in the play offs? Do we blame those three games or the points we lost at home plus whatever we lose between now and the end of the season approaching the games as we have done? There is a reason that through the history of football teams are better at home than away.

What I don't want us to do is get to the end of the season and have this afterthought. Its blatantly obvious now what our issue is. We have to tweak and look at how we combat the approach teams have adopted successfully against us. Its not that complicated from what I can see. The way round it is to win the first 15mins by playing high tempo, pressing and forcing them back into uncomfortable defending. As opposed to the slow methodic defensive counter we play now. This can be done through formation, through attitude, through freedom allowed.

 

It's not counter attack football. It's a bit slow in the build up but our attacks predominantly come through working the ball through midfield and passing it around. To call it counter attack is nonsense to be honest.

 

This. Counter-attacking football in the classic sense involves hitting teams quickly on the break. We don't do that. Our midfield are too slow to release the ball. We rely far too much on Shelvey and hope that he picks out a killer pass. Take him out of the equation and we are awful at attacking. I still don't understand why we let Mehdi Abeid go - far far superior to Jack Colback. Was able to play a quick killer pass too. He would have been perfect for this level.

 

Well we know he's gonna miss all the games against the top 3 teams chasing us and is hopefully back for the game against Brummies away. So, thaats about 4 weeks out.

 

Sorry I think the misunderstanding here comes from it being counter attack football. It isn't at home. It can't be when a team sits deep. What I perhaps haven't made clear is it is set up to be counter attack (which we clearly use away, mainly through Yedlin down the right and Ritchie). Regardless of whether we agree on how we set up however, what is clear is that the home results are disappointing given the squad we have comparative to our opponents. We have to get to the bottom of that to improve. Its pretty obvious to me we must set up in a more attacking manner or it will continue.

 

Brilliant, i remember when all we wanted was a good honest hard working player. Sky have a lot to answer for.

 

Hank's right in that it is clearly a counter-attacking set up. When there's nobody to "counter attack" against, it becomes slow possession football, because it's designed to exploit space behind with runners from deep. When there's no space, we play keep ball. Sometimes, though rarely, we create a good head of steam and play some incisive football, particularly when against poor teams - Villa in the 2nd half was a great example, they had no real spirit so we could just go at them.

We were better with the more attack minded 4-1-4-1. The "1" between defence and attack was Shelvey, not a DM. Ahead of him were Hayden and Diame, both given license to roam. Because it was like that, we used the wings in a more traditional sense; the 4-2-3-1 puts too much onus on the full back attacking, whereas the one we played allowed wingers to wing. It worked better. It was more attack minded, even though on paper it doesn't look it, because Shelvey's only looking forwards. Most other DM formations require a destroyer but in this league, at home, it's utterly unnecessary.

I don't quite see how Rafa misses it. At the most basic level, just go 4-4-2 at home. Everyone knows how to play it, and the team is simply better than the opposition. Save all the counter attacking mind games for next year, when we'll actually need it.

 

You're both over-analysing it. The system/formation we use is not the problem. It comes down to us playing with too slow a tempo and not having particularly good players. Change both of those things and we'd be tearing teams apart more regularly.

 

Out for the next 6 apparently, so likely back for the Wigan game on April 1st.

Time for Mitro and Perez to smash it.

And I'm gonna keep labouring my point about Murphy - 3 goals in 3 games when he came in, then had an iffy match against QPR, but since then hasn't had a look in.....the most natural fit goal scorer we have, surely Rafa try him again?!

 

I would rather see Murphy given a chance at this stage, even if it was for the first half or last 30 minutes or so, I have constantly said that Mitrovic is not the answer and can't see that changing he just misses too many opportunities, for the sake of the team and promotion I wish he could find some mojo but I just don't see it, he should really have scored 10 goals at least by now given the chances he has had.

 

Nah there is more to it than that in my opinion. Even if you have good players and you set them up to sit that deep at home, you will lack penetration. Whichever way people like to dress it up we have four defenders, two sitting midfielders, a no.10 who has defensive responsibilities, a work horse on the left, a decent attacking option on the right and a striker. That's incredibly negative.

The quality of the players will improve our play. However how a manager sets them up is very important and will always impact on results. Plenty of good players cobbled together and have not made a good side. I understand this is the Benitez way but ****ing hell we are fairly **** to watch and 90% of the games are boring. Some will disagree with that of course and be happy with what they've watched. Some are only interested in playing in the PL and results also. Personally I pay to go and watch my team and support them. I prefer to be entertained watching good football. We are ok in patches but I think we are making it hard for ourselves - we should be a good few points clear by now. Of course I want us to do it at the highest level possible too but its not the be all and end all for me. I'd settle for championship if our budget meant we had to. Regardless what your budget is you can still entertain. Bournemouth are a prime example at this level, above and below. Same for Southampton.

I think Benitez is a bit of a dinosaur in his attitude personally.

 

We all know you've got it in for Rafa, mate.

 

I don't have it in for Rafa I just refuse to buy into this whole god like status some have him pinned to. I can accept some like yourself are just happy to have a proper football manager after recent times and that he has us in contention. that's fair enough, but I' not having all this god like drivel.

He is doing a decent job no more. I wouldn't want him sacked (unless you were guaranteeing me Marcelo Gallardo of course). I am hopeful he is just taking this dour approach because he sees it as a means to an end. If you criticise him its like you are pining for the Keegan days? Just a bit more entertainment would do the trick. I'm sure he is doing wonders for the club off the pitch in terms of set up/infrastructure, he is a proper football man afterall. I just want him to be a little bolder at home, its not much to ask

 

That would make him a Rafasaurus. Odd looking creature which has only one leg at the front, 5 in middle and 4 at the back. I actually like the guy - I think he has proved himself on the big stage and showed how, given time, he could have kept us up last season with squad we had. Think though he is under a lot of pressure this year. His reputation is at stake - if he doesnt get us back up he probably wont get another top job. We have shown that we tend to concede a few when we play a more attacking style and I think he would rather ensure we get promoted with dull wins than 5-4 victories.
His defining month will be this coming one. If we get promoted he has done well, if we win Championship he has done very well.
I want him to be at the club next year though. Dont want Ashley trying to replace him with another Yes man.


ZaaA

 

I agree. Although he has looked a bit of a dinosaur tactically, and his start hasn't exactly been awe inspiring, I'm hopeful given time (if it still exists in football) he can come good and maybe he will come alive once at a level he is more accustomed to.

 

This post is bang on the money and well balanced. Well done my man!

 

I think we were in top gear in one sense today

It was backs to the wall and we held out and sealed it


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