Match Day Thread Southampton v Tottenham, Wed 28 December, KO 7:45pm

Where I sit I do sometimes have to to tell people to keep the noise down!

 

If on a Saturday or earlier on a Sunday I would, but if I am working the next day which I was today, especially when the result if not the final score is known, didn't really fancy getting back really late.

 

http://www.101greatgoals.com/news/s...se-fonte-seems-convinced-mike-dean-spurs-fan/

Fonte posts an emoji on a twitter suggesting that Dean is a Spurs fan. The writer suggests it is a worried face....I think it reflects that he really couldn't comment.

 

As someone who has already stated that I found the mass exodus immediately after we conceded a goal to be embarrassing, it's interesting to hear different views on the type of support. Sometimes one of the guys on my row feels the need to stand up and scream abuse at the ref because he knows better than the guy seeing an incident from one tenth of the distance away. Such passion! Is that great support? If someone in a crowd can get others to join in a singsong, that's great. Blaming that crowd for not joining in seems a bit lame to be frank. Strangely, the noisiest around me are often the very fans who bugger off early. Passionate right up to the point they buggered off!
One thing is certain though. My support for Saints is not dependent upon the exuberance or otherwise off my fellow supporters. If those around me were aggressive or abusive I would probably move. Don't get me wrong, it's great when everyone gets behind the team during a period of pressure or immediately after we concede but I am not giving up my season ticket on the basis of a dB reading during a dull passage of play.

 

I don't get this. Sorry. Do you really pay for entertainment, or are you sucked into the tribal world of football?

Not digging you individually Lff, but I constantly read people all over the place saying they have paid to be entertainied. I think it's a lazy fallback. If this was really the case, then people would be paying to watch different teams, different sports, different forms of entertainment. We watch what is fundamentally the same thing week in week out. We know roughly what is going to happen, we just don't know which way the final result will be formed.

I believe I've paid to follow/support a team and a sport that 40+ Years ago, my circumstances stumbled me into. I don't know what that is called, or how it actually happens, but it is my life and has been for almost all of it.

There will be some people who happen to go to a club because it is convenient, but I bet that's a small %. Tiny. Most will go because they support Southampton, and it is "their" team.

Being entertained is great. Lovely. Ideal even, but firstly and foremostly I go because I want to see my team. I want to be a part of it. I want them to win. I have never, ever left the ground after losing a game 3-2 or 4-3, or even 4-1 to Spurs (let's be honest, that was "entertaining") and walked out with a smile saying, "I enjoyed that, it was entertaining and I got value for my money."

This is more than an entertainment and I know lots of people will disagree, but maybe I'm different. I don't think so really, which is why so many people have rows on here and speak sonpassionately about the games - we have mostly all fallen for this sport and this team.

Now when my wife says she wants to go to the theatre to see a play or musical, I expect to be entertained. I don't go because I love the actors.

To me for football is something different to just being an entertainment.

* I do understand that some people don't quite "love" a team and do go for different reasons and treat football as an entertainment, but I guess that's a small number. Most are Southampton fans.

 

Funny as I didn't think that for all the game up until he launched into that frustrated tackle... I guess that's when you roared and thought "beast"

 

The hardest one for him to get. Fans want it now.

 

I think that football is about entertainment. This is something that is probably worth a thread of it's own but if you think about the origins of Association Football, it was essentially the most successful and popular escape from the monotony of working life. I would say that the only reason why some on this thread are arguing that it is not about being entertained is because of the increasing commerciality and the "win-at-all-costs" attitude of some teams. If it wasn't about entertainment, why would clubs like West Ham with a heritage about stylish football complain about a manager such as Sam Allardyce who won them promotion ?

I would argue that that football as a game is also a far deeper experience. There is certainly a massive amount of mathematics associated with this sport even when boiled down to something like the direction a penalty taker places his shot. When you take this out in to the more general field of play there are all sorts of permutations and probabilities which make football so fascinating not least how formations work. On top of that, there is also a degree of poetry about football and the fact that there is a thrill is seeing a player produce a bit of magic (Le Tissier, George Best, David Beckham, Johann Cruyff, etc) is exactly why so many people find football appealing.

I would concede that football does have the ability not to be entertaining and I doubt if many people going on Saturday will be expecting much of a spectacle. If the game is a damp squib, no doubt there will be people posting on here that it was a dour match. It was Fat LeTiss's comments questioning whether "you really pay for entertainment" that prompted this response and which probably explains the reaction to my earlier post where I praised Spurs for playing good football. My point is this. When I go to watch Saints play, I want them to win but I would also prefer them to do it in a manner that is exciting and keeps me entertained. I can appreciate the merits of the home performance against Liverpool as the level of organisation to retain the opposition was fascinating. It was a new experience seeing a Saints team before like that. However, as intriguing as it was, the match wasn't that "entertaining" and ultimately you want too watch something with a touch more drama. I would also have to add that if I see the visiting team play scintillating football, I will appreciate and enjoy that too. I can remember Paul Gascaoigne scoring against us at the Dell and many Saint's fans applauded his efforts too. Ditto with John Barnes when he was at Liverpool. So, I would argue that football is multi-faceted in what it can be about but surely the expectations of a true football fan is that they expect the game to entertain them. Add a bit of controversy in to the mix and there is sufficient to keep fans exercised for days after the match as this thread demonstrates.

 

In my row in the Kingsland we have the most fidgets in the whole ground, they arrive late, leave early at half time, come back late for the second half and depart in relays before the final whistle, so if you see a zone where there are frequent impromptu Mexican Waves, it is nothing to do with ardent support. We are also the equivalent of a Quiet Zone railway coach. However they are all supporters in their own eccentric way and shouldn't be derided for their behaviour, they have paid their money it is their choice on how they behave.

 

Within reason.....you do have some duty of care to other people trying to watch the match.

 

I definitely pay to be entertained. I also pay for hope, exihilaration, disappointment, despair, agony, ecstasy, inspiration and humiliation. And just occasionally a moment of pure magic like Cuco Martina's goal against Arsenal a year ago.

Basically, I pay to ride an emotional rollercoaster. Not sure what other form of entertainment can provide that the way football does. If it was just entertainment I was after, I would be better off going to The Emirates, seeing as I only live 2 miles away; it would be cheaper too, because I wouldn't have to travel. But I formed an emotional attachment to Saints, my local club from over 30 years ago, and I can't imagine that ever being replicated elsewhere.

 

Exactly. Common courtesy, I think it's called.

 

Ian, you don't realise it but you've agreed with me.

Your words:

"I want Saints to win"..... followed by "I prefer them to do it in a manner"

That's what I said. Want then prefer. Yes we'd ideally have full on entertainment, but even you put the want first.

I don't believe that the majority of fans follow any football team for entertainment first. We All may prefer the entertainment but it is not our first requirement.... mostly. Ultimately I want my team to win. I would argue that most fans are not football fans first, but fans of a team. I am a Southampton fan first. I know there are some who are football fans and happen to go to a ground of a particular fan, but the majority will be club fans.

If I was putting entertainment first, I'd probably pick a variation of teams to watch.

 

Here is a question.

If you are offered a ticket to watch Saints v West Brom say (with typical expectations of that game), or a ticket to see Man City v Man United, which would you choose.

Saints every time for me.

 

Exactly this.

 

No, you're absolutely right. To be honest I couldn't care less about being entertained if we scraped a 1-0 win. It was just an expression really. I couldn't think how else to explain my annoyance at the attitude that if you don't shout and sing then you're not a real supporter and that the whole concept is a bit arse about face in that the team should be doing something to get us to sing not expecting us to be their encouragement.

 

My view on that from his face whilst making the tackle was that he wouldn't have been disappointed if he had caught the player - lucky to get the ball or definitely off

 

In my dotage I am happy to be in area of the Ground where I am not expected to behave like a complete twonk, I am no less of a supporter, but just don't have the urge to rebel rouse any more, and I am not a singist at all, but I can still get a bit animated when things are going well.

 

I would always choose the Southampton match of course but I have been to Old Trafford in the past to see Man Utd play Newcastle and have no affiliation whatsoever with either team. There would be no guarantee that the Manchester derby would be an entertaining match and , especially with Mourinho at the helm, this match would have a good chance of not being exciting. I have also gone to watch Stockport County a few times before they slipped out of the league as well as a few matches in France. Basically, if there is an opportunity to go to watch a football match, I will go and would not turn down the opportunity to go to a game live unless in clashed with a Saints or Winchester City match. In either case, I would hope to see some football that would be a pleasure to watch.

As I alluded previously, the match against Liverpool only produced one attempt on goal for Saints but the match was still absorbing. However, I would be disappointed if Saints set their stool out like that every week.

It is pretty clear cut that you would want to see attempts on goal, crunching tackles, great saves and general commitment of al the players when you turn up to watch a game. I think that there is a common argument that these players are millionaires and it is a disappointment if they do not deliver or don't put in the effort. However I would argue that fans of non-league teams feel the same about their players too and they do not earn more than nominal income from playing football. As the Echo stated last night, there have been teams like Gosport where the players were paid late and therefore it is ridiculous for fans to expect that their players "earn their keep." Irrespective of the income, when I go to the Den Plan, the supporters appreciate good football. The 7-0 hammering of Slimbridge before Christmas was a terrific match and everything you hope to be able to watch as a fan. I would have to say that this was the best team performance I have seen this season (taking into account the differences in quality within the leagues) and I enjoyed that performance far more than anything Saints have produced this season even if there was the wonderful smug feeling after beating Inter Milan. In fact, the whole experience of watching Winchester this season has been much better than that of watching Puel's men. During the two previous seasons, I think that Koeman's team and the Winchester squad with Warren Bentley upfront ensured that this was probably the most rewarding football experience I have had for a long time. For me, this is the kind of experience that every fan must want - not only winning and turning over the big guns, but doing it with panache. I find the experience of going to watch football one that I really appreciate albeit I am increasingly finding that the amateur game is probably truer to what the spirit of the game should be about.