Off Topic Snap Election Called

Basically, you know how the Lib Dems sold out to the Tories in the coalition? Well one of the few concessions they were given in return was a referendum on AV (which had little chance of ever being passed). This was a compromise in itself as they wanted PR I believe. There was also meant to be an overhaul of the House of Lords later on but I think it all got scrapped because they fell out over something - I forgot now. Anyway, it was in the news plenty although nothing like to the extent of the referendum last year. The problem was it was a choice between FPTP and AV, but no options for PR or other systems so everyone was like 'meh'. I think I'd like to see a system which would be a mix of regional elected MPs and also a proportion of MPs decided by PR. I think pretty much any other system than FPTP would result in us having a coalition a lot of the time which would bring it's own problems. It would be far more difficult to pass laws but on the other hand it would stop extreme changes being made. I know a lot of countries who have coalition govts bemoan their systems because nothing gets done.

 

The issue with both PR and AV is that it passes a lot of power to fringe parties. In AV, regular voters get their votes counted once, but voters who choose fringe parties get to vote twice, which means the winning mainstream party is the one that managed to appeal most to the loonies.

In PR fringe parties get huge power (proportional to their size) to prop up coalitions. Power to the extremes, combined with weak governments that keep collapsing, is not a good combination (see Germany in the 1920s).

FPTP means it's much harder to get change (although UKIP managed it through years of lobbying for Brexit) but the power goes to centrists and you tend to get stable government.

People present new systems as a perfect solution. I'm not pretending the current system isn't deeply flawed, but I'm not convinced it's worth the risk of some of the alternatives.

 

In terms of a vote for Labour you need to try and guess who will take over from Corbyn as Leader on June 9th and ask yourself if you'd get behind his party. Andy Burnham would be favourite perhaps? There is almost no way May won't get a majority so would you like to see Corbyn's replacement leading a strong opposition or one with a fraction of their current 229 seats? A vote for Labour is not really a vote for Corbyn at all.

 

Good point. Assuming Corbyn goes of course, but we can but hope.

People should be voting tactically, against the Tories, and even though that wouldn't win an election on current trends, or even deny them a majority, your point about a strong opposition is a good one.

 

In fairness, and assuming Corbyn does go after he is trounced, this could be the best thing to happen to Labour for some time. Corbyn gone now rather than in another 3 years and they could get back to a more mainstream politics. Unless of course the party members install another unelectable leader which I wouldn't put past them.

 

The system as it works now doesn't appear to give a fair representation to votes, for instance, 2015 UKIP amassed a massive 3.8 million votes, 3rd highest of all the parties, yet only managed one seat (which I believe was Mark Reckless who quit) 9 parties got more seats.

Green managed 1.1 million votes, 5th highest, yet 1 seat.

SNP 1.4 million votes, 4th highest, yet 56 seats, the 3rd highest.

Obviously votes mean F all, Seats are where the power lies. A system more representative of the proportion of votes would be better suited in my opinion.

I think people who live in dominant political areas such as labour/tory held areas are probably put off of voting if they don't agree with the policies of that party. For me I'm in Southend Essex, a conservative area, it wont change, voting for anything else is a wasted vote and tbh it does put me off voting, what is the point.

 

It needs to be a combination of the two.

On the one hand a vote for the area/constituency as need someone to be representing that area and to be accountable to the people of that area.

Secondly, a number of non constituency seats to reflect the number of votes each party gets.

Problem is in deciding what the balance should be. How many of one in contrast to how many of the other. No easy answer on that one.

One option would be the House of Commons is based on constituency seats and House of Lords with teeth based on combination of two. Therefore have separate elections for the H of L as well. Still have arguments about ratio in H of L and how much "teeth" it should have.

 

That's it, No Chance of Voting for Labour now....

Jezza has only gone and had a go at Mike Ashley today.

Doesn't he know who Mikey is for heavens sake.

 

That's his Sports Direct loyalty bonus blown

 

Some might say, its a bit Up Market for him

 

Corbyn is supported by the membership of the Labour party and specific unions, particularly Unite, an expected election loss will make no difference to his support and as he has shown that once given the position he has no intention of stepping down unless the party membership votes him out, Labour losing this election will only see the party moving further left as moderates such as we are seeing resign or lose at the polls.

 

Cheerful f*cker aren't you?

 

Here's a link showing what the 2015 result would have looked like under PR: https://www.indy100.com/article/her...der-a-proportional-voting-system--gJenQmaW2gW We would either have had a Tory-LD coalition, or a Tory-UKIP coalition, make of that what you will. The comment about fringe parties is kind of redundant - they're only fringe parties because of FPTP. The Greens would have had 24 seats in 2015 under PR as opposed to 1 seat without it, the Lib Dems wouldn't have been wiped out, and the 3+million people who voted UKIP might have felt sufficiently represented with their 82 MPs rather than the one they got. It's easy to see why some people grabbed at the chance to vote out in the referendum (stupid though I think that was) - they had a chance to be actually represented and not ignored by the electoral system for once.

 

I'll be voting for the conservative party as always have done (except the last European elections) My reasoning is I have a job and therefore are not reliant on some left wing bozo taking hard earned money from somebody else and handing it over to me to insure they get my vote.

 

II do not think the Conservatives are remotely "centrist." They have stolen UKIP's policies and a comparison with a 2005 BNP manifesto shows little difference between the Tories now and the BNP back then.

 

UKIP have one main policy I doubt many who vote for them consider any others, as we are on a course to leave the EU they no longer have relevance, as for the BNP having read this I could see a lot of people in this country agreeing with certain aspects of it, all down to Tony Blair and his underhand attack on the English who for some reason he seems to hate.

 

This might have a lot to do with the disappearance of the Lib Dems. The Tories can now lurch to the right with less fear that they'll lose votes to a more moderate party.

 

I think we may see the Lib Dems get somewhat of a rehabilitation this time round. We'll see what happens in the locals.

 

I voted Lib Dem most of my adult life, up to and including 2010. After the debacle of getting into bed with the Tories though I swore I'd never vote for them again. The problem I have is that I just don't see a party that I do want to vote for. The Tories and UKIP are a million miles from my own political views, and Labour have become a split between the extreme left backed by the unions and career politician New Labour Blair cronies. If this election goes badly (which it will) then I can see a split coming up between a far left official Labour Party, the career New Labour politicians making a new party and some defecting to the Lib Dems if they recover this time around. We could really do with a proper left of centre socialist party that didn't have the extremes of Corbyn or the sell out of New Labour.

I live in a very safe Labour seat, so it is unlikely that anything I do will make a difference anyway. Even in 2015 UKIP barely scratched Labour's majority and this area will never vote Tory or Lib Dem. Because of that, last time I voted Green as I think this current government is making some very bad policies in terms of the environment and the bigger the % vote overall then the less likely they are to ignore the green movement. While there will never be a party that fits exactly with anyone's views on everything, I just wish there was a party that stood for something decent that offered a real caring and just option. The country is getting less and less compassionate and it really bothers me. The party that actually comes closest to my own views on most policies is the SNP, who when you take away their nationalist agenda are very similar to John Smith's Labour Party.