1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Safe standing a difficult topic for Liverpool fans

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by LuisDiazgamechanger, Jul 1, 2017.

  1. LuisDiazgamechanger

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    36,673
    Likes Received:
    6,683
    <peacedove>Safe standing a difficult topic for Liverpool fans
    The campaign for safe standing is gathering pace as more and more clubs warm towards it, however it must be approached with caution.
    by Thomas Price

    please log in to view this image

    Celtic introduced a new safe standing area for over 2000 of their fans last year
    The Premier League has confirmed that it has written to all 20 clubs in the league to query them on the prospect of introducing safe standing. Last year Celtic introduced a safe standing section at Celtic Park which divided opinion amongst their fans. A year on and the majority have rave reviews about their new safe standing section claiming that it is very spacious and a million miles away from the dangerous terraces of the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s.

    The most common form of safe standing is the rail seating that Celtic have, the seats are locked into and upright position to allow space for standing but they can also be unlocked to allow seating, which is crucial as all UEFA matches have to be all-seater. For Liverpool fans, the prospect of safe standing is a touchy subject with both arguments for and against.

    Against
    please log in to view this image

    The horrors of the Hillsborough disaster will always live in the memories of Liverpool fans
    Standing at stadiums was ended following the tragic Hillsborough disaster in which 96 Liverpool fans lost their lives. And it is the belief amongst many that the old fashioned standing and fencing were a key cause of this disaster and many view reintroducing safe standing as a step backwards, especially the Hillsborough Family Support Group who are firmly against any form of standing in stadiums- especially at Anfield.

    Despite Hillsborough being an obvious point against, there are also other reasons why safe standing may not be the right move for the Premier League teams. You only have to look at videos of the old Kop to see just how dangerous standing in stadiums is: thousands of people shoulder on shoulder swaying recklessly from side to side. It is something that would be ripped apart nowadays by health and safety authorities and doesn’t matter how safe you make the standing, the potential for danger is always going to be there.

    Standing also appears an unfair move for younger supporters as depending on the location of the safe standing area, youngsters may not be able to see and that ruins the whole matchday experience and in a time when people are worried about the lack of interest that kids have in supporting their sides this could be a move that has potentially negative effects on the future fanbase.

    Also read: The Premier League’s richest club owners

    For
    please log in to view this image

    The Kop can take the atmosphere at Anfield to a whole different level
    Over the last few years, it has become incredibly apparent that the atmosphere in the Premier League’s top stadiums has been fading. Some blame the increase in ticket prices and others the increase of tourism, however, there is an argument that introducing safe standing could be the boost that clubs need to improve their atmosphere.

    The biggest example for this is at Anfield: When the majority of the Kop are sat down songs hardly ever spread around the stadium and Anfield appears a quiet place. However, when the Kop is stood up (mainly in important games) it is in full voice and the atmosphere is unbeatable at times. Safe standing is a common feature in many foreign countries and the effects of this on the atmosphere is most prominent in Germany.

    It does not matter which stadium you go to – you are always bound for a good atmosphere and loud cheering fans which is what appears to be missing in the Premier League with most clubs now singing a traditional anthem at the beginning of the game and cheering whenever a goal goes in.

    Apart from the atmosphere difference safe standing can make, there is also a case for the fact that the standing areas are called safe for a reason. In this day and age, it would be merely impossible for clubs to put fans at that big of a risk so the standing must be safe otherwise it would not currently be a discussion taking place in the Premier League.

    Most recently, League One side Shrewsbury have applied to have safe-standing at their ground. There is an all-seater stadiums legislation that allows clubs from League One and below have standing areas within their stadiums, but should they be promoted, the standing would have to be removed as all Championship and Premier League stadiums must be all-seater stadiums.

    The survey proposed to the clubs is just the beginning of what is expected to be a long investigation into whether safe standing is viable in England and whether it would be a popular move amongst clubs and fans meaning that any introduction of the safe standing is a long way off. One thing that is for certain is that it will definitely divide opinion but even if it does get approved it would not be something that all clubs would have to instil, but rather and option.

    https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/safe-standing-difficult-topic-liverpool-fans
     
    #1
  2. astro

    astro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    46,798
    Likes Received:
    15,891
    For me safe standing has never been a difficult topic.

    Unsafe standing in a stadium with forged credentials overseen by incompetent and corrupt police backed by racist media and government determined to punish the innocent to protect themselves is a difficult topic.
     
    #2
  3. moreinjuredthanowen

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    115,701
    Likes Received:
    27,602
    The two topics should not really be discussed imo as one and the same.

    Hillsborough was a tragic incident caused by factors outlined in the inquiry and now charges.

    Safe standing system is so far removed from those issues that it is in effect safer that What we see every wee at anfield at every attack.

    Everyone stands to to get a view.

    You get 1.6 people per seat area in theory. So capacity goes up and you cater for those who really wish to stand.

    The viability of safe standing is directly related to ability to control crowd via ticketing and not having every one pile in one row... exactly the same issues as occurs with seating.

    Imo it's an emotional issue for a significant group of people who are being consulted by the xlub
     
    #3
  4. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Boom!
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    45,484
    Likes Received:
    27,892
    European ruling means each person must have the option of a seat. In theory, that means capacity should remain the same
     
    #4
  5. FedLadSonOfAnfield

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    20,481
    Likes Received:
    4,935
    Not a difficult subject at all

    This works perfectly in Germany for example where it has a very positive effect on the games

    Trying to link it to Hillsborough just seems like whoring for views

    Hillsborough was nothing really to do with the act of standing in grounds per se, well it was and it wasn't, it was more that the authorities failed the fans at that match in the context of standing and stands themselves in that era, standing was not properly organised back then as it is in modern grounds where it is allowed with the new system of one fan per place, nor was the flow of fans into the standing areas properly regulated and controlled. This system is totally totally different to terraces so it's not really comparable, other then fans are on their feet.
     
    #5
  6. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    25,814
    Likes Received:
    12,369
    Not sure how it is safer, you have increased the number of people in an area that 9/10 isn't enough for one.

    Dropping prices and bringing fans back who are not tourists would help. But right now at £20-40 per game fans want to be entertained.
     
    #6
  7. LuisDiazgamechanger

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    36,673
    Likes Received:
    6,683
    Roma target Liverpool left-back
    Roma are ready to enter the race to sign Liverpool left-back Alberto Moreno after Napoli had a bid rejected, according to reports in Italy
     
    #7
  8. moreinjuredthanowen

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    115,701
    Likes Received:
    27,602
    If you consider the kop. It's not luxurious in terms of space but the clear intent is to get the maximum into a row.

    It's allowed for domestic games so in theory you could add 5k people to the kop but it's only european games where the seat must be down.

    In short lfc could do this and get to 60k no bother for almost no investment.

    I think it's one reason by Enfield road end is being consistently long fingered by fsg
     
    #8
  9. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    25,814
    Likes Received:
    12,369
    As you said, for the older grounds the space per seat is already cramped and the rail seat may be required for European games.

    So if the numbers of 1.6 people per 1 current seat dimension is correct then it's bonkers!

    If it's done to allow safe standing and not to increase profits then I am all for it
     
    #9
  10. moreinjuredthanowen

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    115,701
    Likes Received:
    27,602
    Its an inevitability that profits go up.

    If you get 5k more on Kop then they buy a pie and beer and you make money.

    If you reduced ticket prices down by commensurate amount to allow the 1.6 to 1 ratio of fans to come out as same rebenue per ticket people will still spend cash in the ground on the day.
     
    #10

  11. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    25,814
    Likes Received:
    12,369

    My feelings are that it's cramped in all seat stadiums when fans stand. I am already squashed by the two either side of me.

    Rail seats, not sure how a section that lets one person sit can then fit 1.6 people in??
     
    #11
    Zanjinho likes this.
  12. moreinjuredthanowen

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    115,701
    Likes Received:
    27,602
    Maybe so. Every stadium will be different. I'm sure it's leg room that's important.

    The kop has shag all so I don't know how It could fit more in.

    If you've no seat to worry aboutyoucan be staggered kind of row.

    I believe at celtic they have some means to count in the heads per row. I dunno though.

    It's for the young men who want to stand.
     
    #12
  13. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Boom!
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    45,484
    Likes Received:
    27,892
    Exactly this.

    If a club doesn't compete in Europe then it doesn't matter but then that would show a distinct lack of ambition from the club.

    If the club is in Europe, there must be a seat available to each and every person in attendance. How can it therefore mean higher attendance numbers?
     
    #13
  14. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    25,814
    Likes Received:
    12,369
    What about the older guys who would t mind standing?
     
    #14
  15. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    25,814
    Likes Received:
    12,369
    My current seat is in the park end at Goodison. The most modern part of the ground and once I stand nobody could find space in front or behind me.

    Don't see it as a way to make money, do it as a way to give standing for those who want it and one seat/rail seat = one person.
     
    #15
    Zanjinho likes this.
  16. moreinjuredthanowen

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    115,701
    Likes Received:
    27,602
    they are ****ed... go play golf while us young blokes get bjs and neast nasty sex.

    @rhc
     
    #16
    Peej likes this.
  17. moreinjuredthanowen

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    115,701
    Likes Received:
    27,602
    ok ok..

    http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/the-proposal/the-proposal-continued---the-sums

    just do a little research guys.

    "The increase in capacity is created by adding a 'rear step' along each row (this runs underneath the seat when the seat is down, as shown in the images on the right) and accommodating two lines of standing fans, one on the front step, one on the rear, between each continuous, row-long rail. "

    please log in to view this image


    Ok.. so there you go. i don't agree with the 1.8. I think that is optimistic.

    As i said 1.6

    12.4k on the kop now.

    12.4 x 1.6 = 19.84... call it 20k on the kop

    so right now thats 61.5k anfield capacity... and as i said faff all investment to do it.

    now.... is it realistic? probably not but..... the "yellow wall" is 25k.. It'd be quite the end with 20k in there.
     
    #17
  18. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    25,814
    Likes Received:
    12,369

    I never looked at how they worked. Had seen a short bit on the rail seat and thought it was one person per spot. This looks workable and if there is a crush, will just be the fat lad behind you!

    I have a little more disposable income being old and fat so would need the step space behind me! And the space in front.

    Ultimately what au would want is people standing if they wish, but as safe as possible. If the club cut ticket prices then fair play. Just hope they don't just do it for profit
     
    #18
    Solid_Air 2 likes this.
  19. moreinjuredthanowen

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    115,701
    Likes Received:
    27,602
    If you imagine the back row is off set half a person it kind of makes sense but its still a bit of a mosh pit.

    Its the main stand at £77 for us lads i reckon. Let the young bucks who have no sense get in there. like football should be. :)


    The "technology" if you can call it that is a direct response to many issues including Hillsborough and would work ok... would it be easier to evacuate or do corwd control using cc tv.. i dunno

    As i said. If FSG have a choice between this and a lousy 40mil for the anfield road end they will do this.
     
    #19
  20. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    25,814
    Likes Received:
    12,369

    Get a ST and dont have to pay £70per game.

    I coul dsee the concerns about security/evacuation. but sure exits would be enlarged in areas if increased capacity.
     
    #20

Share This Page