Rival Watch / Other Teams

How is that not on wenger? Either he hasnt set them up tactically, he hasnt bought in the right personnel, he hasnt motivated then or he hasnt coached them to be superstars. Either way you look at it its all wengers fault.

Hes had how many opportunities and not even taken 1

 

I can understand Piskie but you're right, it's hard not to look at what he's done and think WTF. I don't think any top manager or lower end manager has quite the control and comfort that he has at Arsenal. Nor has anyone had the time he's had to produce a title winning team.

Any which way you look at it, winning two FA cups and nothing else since 2004 is under achieving with a club like Arsenal.

 

It's because most of the people at Arsenal in prominent positions were put there by Wenger. That's how he has gotten away with underperforming for so long.

How can any Arsenal fan not feel anything but despondent when they see a club like Leicester showing such pride and fighting spirit whilst our ineptitude repeats itself every season like Groundhog Day?

I'd like to think most level headed aren't solely upset with our lack trophies but rather our lack of fight and motivation, which leads to a predicable collapse around spring time, with us scrapping for a top 4 position.

Our 2nd place finish last season was not a sign of improvement but rather a reflection of the other teams' poor showing last season.

In short: if Wenger doesn't leave this season, he's only going to cut his nose to spite his face.

 

Anyone watching Barca vs Juve? 3-0 to Juve.

Been an absolute masterclass soo far.

Allegri for Arsenal?!.. Yes pleeeease!

 

Juve were sensational today. Will win the Cup if they carry on like that.

 

The club make some sound footballing decisions? Dream on.

 

You guys genuinely think Allegri would come to Arsenal?!

 

It's really not that far-fetched. We have a lot of money, we're a big global brand, we're based in a huge city and we have good infrastructure. I accept that things are going horribly wrong at the moment and there has to be some significant changes made within the hierarchy, but there won't exactly be a lack of suitors wanting to come to us.

 

All of what you've said is true but we aren't talking about the manager of Sampdoria or Palermo here. Juve are almost as big a club with as big a global fanbase and as much financial clout as Arsenal. They are a regular fixture in the Forbes top 10 richest clubs and are currently well placed to win the Serie A again and progress to the CL semi finals. Allegri would be better off waiting another year for one of Real or Bayern to become available and move there. I'd be amazed if he moved to a club with no CL football and in urgent need of a squad overhaul.

 

For years the state of Arsenal's bank balance has been the subject of conjecture. If there truly is £200m available for transfers, then a top manager would fancy the gig. Bigger salary than one would get elsewhere, live in London and the PL is a managerial draw that it isn't for players. I can see a 'big name' foreign coach fancying it.

How much good it will do? That's harder to predict. The team needs a complete rebuild. It needs a whole new defence when United, Citeh, Liverpool, Barcelona....all want the same. Apart from Liverpool, those clubs have a history of paying more in transfers and wages. If Sanchez leaves that just adds in more difficulties as he really is the only heart on show right now.

It needs to be viewed as a 3 to 5 year project and the right man is imperative as United and Liverpool are and have discovered. Getting it wrong will cause years of living in the wilderness as there's going to be 6 other clubs competing for CL, Cups, etc. from here on. Even with unlimited resources Pep and Mourinho are struggling right now to land CL football, let alone win the PL. Conte's position is a one-off as he came in to a title winning set-up. Arsenal aren't anywhere near that.

 

I suppose it depends on how long Zidane and Ancelotti last at their respective clubs, but I take your point.

In regards to the squad overhaul, although we need some new players, I still don't think we need as many as some may think (unless it comes to our defence where I believe most of our changes need to be made, but there are issues with the system we utilise, so it's difficult to say whether these players are suffering from a system that doesn't suit them or whether they just aren't capable).

Nevertheless, It was only a few months ago where we looked like a reasonably competitive side. The players we have haven't suddenly turned terrible overnight; there are clearly issues with man-management, motivation and confidence that the incumbent manager is struggling to figure out. I don't think it matters how much money we spend because Wenger never rectifies any of the systematic problems we have despite having much better players than he did previously. So I have no doubt that, under a different manager, these players would perform at a higher level. Whether that level would be enough to compete for titles and cups is certainly disputable, however.

At the end of the day, Allegri is a young manager and may want to take on a different challenge in a new country depending on the opportunities available to him. Rafael Benitez went from managing Real Madrid to somehow managing Newcastle. Klopp went from Dortmund to Liverpool. It's not so far beyond the realms of possibility to the extent that you'd find it that shocking.

I'm not saying I expect him to come to us, but for me personally, I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

 

It should be pointed out though, that in both those cases, Benitez and Klopp failed dismally at managing their respective previous clubs.
Benitez at Real was utter ****e and Klopp nearly got Dortmund relegated, it's not as if they left their clubs at the height of their powers to join Newcastle and Liverpool.
Their credibility was in the gutter somewhat, so they had to accept whatever jobs they were offered, they were likely offered a LOT of roles granted, especially in Klopps case, since he did some great things at Dortmund before it went to ****....but still, their stock was nowhere near as high as Allegri's is right now

 

Balanced and well-reasoned comments as always BG

I suppose i was just surprised (and amused) at how many gooners seem to be under the impression that Allegri couldn't get the vaseline and kleenex out fast enough when he heard Arsenal were interested. You even have a thread about it somewhere on here about his 'verbal agreement' to join.

It is precisely the same naivety that has led to Wenger staying a decade after his sell by date.

 

Benitez fair enough, but to describe Klopp as "failing dismally" at Dortmund is a massive stretch.

Benitez was still a manager that had won the Champions League and multiple league titles who had/has a reputation of being a good manager, despite his well-documented flaws. To go from Champions League winners Madrid to Championship side Newcastle is a massive drop down and although he didn't succeed with Madrid, he was certainly capable of going to a better club than Newcastle.

Even with Klopp, I'm not disputing his last season was very poor by the standards he set for himself. But let's not forget he won multiple league titles with a wage bill that was half of QPR's and transformed them into a strong side in Europe where they could compete with the likes of Madrid, PSG, Man City etc. Irrespective of his last season there, he still would have had plenty of job offers from clubs in stronger positions than Liverpool who, quite frankly, were going absolutely nowhere under Rodgers with a squad full of mediocrity.

I fully agree that their stock wasn't as high as Allegri's is now, but it doesn't change the fact that we could be an attractive proposition for him in the future if he wishes to undertake a slightly different challenge. He's 49 years old, has plenty of time on his side and may relish the chance to make his mark on a club that is currently languishing in obscurity, but also has the potential to achieve so much more than what they are currently.

 

I don't think so, to take someone from title contenders, down to the relegation zone is failing dismally in my book.
You are right in that Klopp himself created those very standards by which he was judged in making Dortmund the force they were, and I acknowledged he did great things at that club, but you cannot deny that his last season was an epic fail, much like Jose with us last year and Ranieiri with leicester this year.
I am not for one second saying that he became a **** manager because of it, I just meant that his stock had fallen somewhat, where as Allegri is currently riding the crest of a wave.

 

You can't judge him on part of the season though, he got them out of the relegation zone and into the Europa spot by the end of the season and into the German Cup final (which they lost).

 

Wasn't actually aware of that.....so my bad.....
Still, my point stands, he wasn't riding high like Allegri is.
Not saying that Allegri wont come to Arsenal, I just think, that it might not be as an attractive position as some people think.
Taking over from a 20 year incumbent, with a team that will probably not be in the CL next season.
Barca are without a manager next year for example, surely they would be a much more attractive option to Allegri than Arsenal, for example.

I think all this is moot anyway, because its more or less confirmed that Arsene is staying for at least one more season, probably two.

 

A lot focus on the fact that they were in the relegation pit at some point quite late in the season. Shows how good he is to climb out of it and qualify for Europe but you have to accept that they shouldn't have been in that position and should be qualifying for CL not Europy.

 

I think Arsenal were a more attractive option a few years back but Wenger's continued leadership has made us much less relevant in Europe. However, we still have a large fanbase, great location and money. I'm sure most suitors will be attracted to Wenger type wages of £8m+ a year we can offer and we still have 2 world class players and some very good quality ones dotted around.

 

As mentioned, Klopp was far from being a disaster at Dortmund. Yes he had that one bad season, but he managed to turn it around.

Previous to that he had a lot of success with Dortmund, and on a tight budget up against the likes of Bayern Munich.

As for Allegri, he's riding high at the moment, which might give him the confidence to take on a project such as Arsenal. Any new manager coming in will know that they have complete backing from the board for a long term project, with huge financial backing. It's an attractive proposition for the best managers in the world.

Sadly though it looks like we will have to put up with Wenger for another 2 years ....