Rival Watch / Other Teams

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by PISKIE, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    Good post. I think the Utd game summed up how Spurs had been looking, it was really disjointed stuff. Since then you've looked a lot better but it's a physicality and solid unit that gives you your strength. Until very recently I thought Spurs were going to end up having a really poor season after doing so well last season (prior to the post Chelsea game collapse). You've looked hard working but not had any kind of fluidity to your forward movement and passing. That has been changing in recent games but I thought the first half of the Chelsea game was showing signs of that same lack of fluidity until you unlocked there defense and opened the game up.

    Because of the way your team works as a unit and is setup to be strong and difficult to get at I think you'll continue to get results. It's whether you can continue to add the attacking flair as the season goes on that'll decide how high you finish.

    Good point on Rose by the way, he looks a completely different player compared to the one he has been over the couple of seasons before poch joined you. He's really come a long way and looks to have the right attitude to keep it up. Good news for England.
     
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  2. Citizen Kane

    Citizen Kane Danny Rosebud

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    The first half last night had all the hallmarks of two teams who were more scared of losing than they were keen to win. For us - defeat risked a massive setback in the hunt for top 4 given the fact that you and Pool unexpectedly dropped points; as well as all the baggage from THAT game last year. For them, the humiliating prospect of a bitter rival putting an end to their soon to be record-breaking run. But Conte strikes me as a calculating pragmatist though. I personally think that he kept himself and his players (rightfully) emotionally detached from all the media guff about the winning streak, and would've been more than happy with a draw to take them 2 games clear of Liverpool. They certainly set up like that in the first half with Alonso and Moses in particular not pushing up as much as they have been recently, and Kante taking up a very deep average position. In a way that played into our hands as it gave us the time and space to settle into a rhythm and start to probe for weaknesses. We found one and exploited it twice.

    It's something we've discussed many times on our board. Alli, Eriksen and Lamela are 3 of the hardest-working players in the league. It seems to be the quality that Poch values above all else (probably reflective of his own style and philosophy as a player). That came at the expense of goals last season. Ideally, we need one or even two of them to step up their game and start hitting 12-15 goals a season in order to take the burden off of Kane. Alli has now hit 7 in 4 games and 10 in total already, so maybe he will be the player to do it. But you're right, until we increase the fluidity and cutting-edge in the final third, we won't be able to challenge for major trophies.
     
    #17282
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  3. EmirAleks

    EmirAleks Well-Known Member

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    I watched Spurs - Chelsea game and was impressed by Spurs. So well organised and powerful. It was a great match for a neutral. I do agree that the main Spur's weakness is lack of word class game changers of Sanchez caliber. They will lose points on a bad day simply because there is no one capable to lift the team, but with their discipline and hard working high octane game there will not be many bad days for Spurs this season, I am afraid. Six teams at the moment look like genuine top four finishers. I foresee Chelsea running away with the title and some tense dog fight for top four places.
     
    #17283
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  4. Citizen Kane

    Citizen Kane Danny Rosebud

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    Chelsea have some tough, tough fixtures coming up. A pride match away to Leicester, away to Liverpool and then they host you. If they get through to the beginning of Feb with maximum points, there is no question that they will win the league.
     
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  5. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    I tend to agree it'll be the next handful of games Chelsea will slip up in if they are going to fall back into the pack. It's up to the chasing teams to string together some good results over the next month or so and keep the pressure on.

    Chelsea have lost to Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs, but no-one else in the league this season. Conte seems to have a good setup to win the games against lesser opponents and draw on a bad day. It's the top six who will need to get results against Chelsea to stop them running away with the title.

    The same was true to an extent last season. Leicester had figured out a setup which would beat most opponents and on a bad day grab a draw. The problem was the top teams, other than Arsenal who did the double over them, failed to reign them back in when the opportunities arose.

    The one thing I will say about Chelsea though is that despite there very good defensive record they often look fragile at the back. I'm surprised they haven't conceded more tbh. The defending against you lot was a prime example. Both goals no-one picked up the man. Also against City they were fortunate city wasted opportunities to put the game to bed after cutting through the Chelsea defence, which allowed them to get back into the game. They have enough weaknesses if teams are able to exploit them.

    I also think if Costa was to get injured it would have a huge impact on there season. And to a lesser extent Hazard.
     
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  6. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    Chelsea definitely set themselves up to go for a draw and nick it with a goal if the opportunity came up. Almost Mourinho-esque. If you guys had settled quicker I think you could have got more goals as they don't look comfortable playing so defensively. When you scored and they had to open up I thought they came into the game far more, though it also opened spaces for you lot.

    Also thought they struggled with the physical way you imposed yourselves on them which stopped them playing a defensive game as they couldn't keep possession and found it hard to break.
     
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  7. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

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    Dele Alli has scored the same amount of league goals in 17 days as Wilshere has scored in his entire career.
     
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  8. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    Different types of player, different positions.

    Lionel Messi scored more goals in 2016 (50) than David Silva has over the last seven Seasons at City. (46)
     
    #17288
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  9. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

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    It does, nonetheless, highlight a serious point here - Wilshere's tally in terms of producing goals and assists isn't very good, especially for a player who is frequently in the opposition's third of the field. If he wants to get to that next level, he needs to rack up more.

    He has 13 goals in 188 appearances, which is basically 1 goal every 15 games. That's not good enough.
     
    #17289
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  10. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    True he should certainly have more goals particularly as he strikes a ball pretty well. But I think Wilshere's stats are somewhat ruined by the fact at least half of his apps are on the back of some kind of injury. I do think Wilshere is looking decent at the moment - hopefully this Season will get him back to his best for when he returns to Arsenal.

    Chamberlain has most of his app's at Arsenal as a WF and only has 20 goals in 173 apps. That's really poor IMO. The top guys in his position are scoring 20-30 a Season these days.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017

  11. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

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    So Wilshere's best position is where exactly? He's weak on the wing and mediocre as a centre mid. All be really can do is be played ACM. Which is where Alli plays too. Though both can do a job at CM.

    And I'm not sure of the point of the Messi stat. That stat suggests that Messi is miles better than Silva... Which he is. At any position in the attacking part of a team.
     
    #17291
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  12. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    I think his best position is CM. The 'Cazorla role' running forward and playing passes from a deep starting position. I think he needs to play next to a DM though. He could adapt to the 'number 10/AMF' role over time but I don't really think it's 'his natural' position.

    He's actually having a decent Season and is getting better the more he plays.

    Basically just comparing apples to oranges. Which is what you were doing.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  13. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

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    Last season when Alli played CM most of the time, like Wilshere does, he still got 10 prem goals.

    They play pretty similar positions. Trying to negate that stat by saying they're 'apples and oranges' is excusing Wilshere I feel. Even in a free scoring Bournemouth team he is contributing little.

    Regardless, do you think Wilshere is as good as Alli at football?
     
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  14. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    David Silva, Herrera, Fabregas, Kante, Sigurdsson,Fellani, Carzorla all scored less than Alli last Season. Doesn't mean much, different midfielders add different things.

    I would worry more if Wilshere was a WF and was'nt contributing goals. (like Chamberlain)

    Yes I do. I rate Wilshere. In terms of Arsenal I think he's more talented than Ramsey, Chamberlain, Elneny and Coquelin but his personality seems to grate with certain people.
     
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  15. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

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    Chamberlain has 6 goals and 6 assists so far, hasn't been a regular first-team player and we're about midway through the season. Has Wilshere ever contributed that much in an entire season for us? Ox has had injury problems too.

    Stop making excuses for Wilshere. Injuries are not the reason why his output is so poor. He's been injury free for Bournemouth and hasn't registered a single goal or assist for them.

    I wouldn't be as concerned about his lack of productivity if he fulfilled a Modric-esque role, but not only does he not dictate a game like Modric does, he actually gets into more advanced positions and has more shots than someone like Modric, yet still struggles to make a telling contribution in the final third.

    As I said, he needs to add this to his game if he wants to ever be more than just a decent Premier League midfielder. He's 25 now, he's not the 18 year-old wonder kid anymore.
     
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  16. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

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    Its not about scoring more than those other players last season. It's about scoring more in 17 days than another guy in his whole career. And being better than those four hardly requires much talent! Meh, this is going to turn into an argument so let's leave it.
     
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  17. PISKIE

    PISKIE Roasted Spuds
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    That's not like you. Are you feeling alright ? ;)
     
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  18. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    Wilshere wins Bournemouth player of the month for the second month in a row.
     
    #17298
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  19. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

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    Good. Increase his value and sell him.
     
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  20. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

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    Pretty impressive from spurs. Good footy, ripping teams apart, clean sheets, lots of goals, highest GD in the league. Time for us to step it up
     
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