Off Topic Politics Thread

Nonsense. N.I. has attracted a level of public funding the rest of the UK can only dream of. The UK exchequer would benefit enormously if the province became part of the Republic of Ireland, frankly.

 

Absolutely spot on. Politics is blinkered too and when I occassionally pop in here to have a read, I often laugh at what I read in terms of blinkered vision.

It will never happen now, but the whole political landscape and procedure needs a complete change. We're probably in too deep though.

 

It's the obvious lesson from the current shambles. Yet there's an English/British disease. Hand wringing followed by cries of "things must change" followed by bugger all. Take our beloved sport. How often have we heard these words after another humiliating exit. Take a look at how Germany responded to defeat after their own debacle in 2000. Compare and contrast!

We are currently hearing the same thing about social housing following Grenfell. We must build homes for people. It's basic, yet I keep hearing weasel words or absurd political point scoring.

Going into alliance with such a toxic bunch as the DUP is appalling. This was the moment for the Tories to say to Labour that they share a number of common values, so with good will and casting off of absurdly outdated rhetoric they could have ruled together for the next 5 years as a national government. Talent from the Lib Dems, the Greens (bless her) and the SNP et al could be bought into government. But no way. Labour can smell the possibility of future victory; Tories a resounding defeat. So they cling on to partisan name calling and we watch as our government slips a bung to a group who hold 19th century anti-liberal views.

None of this is going to have a dramatic effect on me, but for the so called "underclass" any hope of change is gone. As for that youthful optimism we have long awaited and recently witnessed, Bob Dylan's anthem "The Times They Are A Changing" is as hollow as ever. Instead we're left with Townshend. "Won't Get Fooled Again."

 

Apparently our new state of the art £6bn carrier is running XP.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...running-outdated-windows-xp-software-raising/

This country seems to have no foresight whatsoever.

 

I think you are missing the simple fact that NI costs a lot more to police and keep secure which kind of skews the whole £xxx per head amount to look like more is spent on them in terms of the whole array of services.

And yes of course we would benefit if they became part of the republic and Ireland would have to foot the bill there but then England would "benefit" in simple terms if Wales and Scotland were not in the union as well because England (in simple terms) gets less per head than the other 3 do under the Barnett Formula!!

Not so sure that it is as simple as "letting them go." The Scots and NI citizens might want a say in it.

 

Would you be in favour of a referendum?

 

Could be wrong but my impression is that the general population of Northern Ireland wouldn't be.

 

The DUP won 10 of 18 seats in the election and an independent unionist won another. Suggests to me there's no majority in favour of reunification. If parties in favour of a referendum form a majority in the assembly I'm pretty sure they'd get one.

 

Sadly no one ever asks the English if they would like a referendum, just foot the bill apparently.

The last Scottish ref' got so silly (and nasty at times) I really hoped they'd just bugger off in the end. Maybe that's the grand plan?

 

It might take 20, 50 or 100 years but Ireland will eventually become one nation again. Great Britain has lost nearly all of its' colonies over time and it will take a natural course in Ireland too, it would make perfect sense geographically and culturally.

 

Not culturally. Religion is the major factor here. There would have to be a change in that respect in both ireland and northern ireland for that to happen.

 

There are extemely complex issues in Northern Ireland it's true, but fundamentally it just isn't morally right that GB has control of an area that is part of a separate bigger country. The views of people of the ROI have a right to be be heard too.

 

I have always supported a united Ireland, but not sure the fact that they have a land border it logically follows. On that basis call all of Europe Germany. AH. I see your point!

 

It's not it's part of the UK.

It wouldn't be morally right for the ROI to control of an area that is part of a seperate country and who's population want to remain part of that seperate country.

Also when I looked on wiki earlier after my first post it listed the polls in Ireland as being slightly in favor if it staying part of the UK. No idea how accurate that is.

 

It's only part of the UK because we colonised it, like we colonised Australia, America, NZ, etc, historically it was always one country. Now all of those other places have their independance it will naturally come to Ireland too.

 

None of those countries have been returned to their former owners. Their culture has changed and they have become some thing new.

This is the same as northern Ireland it is not the same country as 500+ years ago.
(I don think it was part of a unified ireland then either, I'm Pretty sure 'Ireland' was created by England)

You can't punish the people of northern Ireland for the way they became what they are as you are proposing.

 

Ok, India and Africa then, they returned to their former owners. Ireland has been separate from Britain for thousands of years and has been inhabited by Celts for much of it. England invaded Ireland and colonised it in the last thousand years...

Plantations of Ireland
"Although England trailed behind other European powers in establishing overseas colonies, it had been engaged during the 16th century in the settlement of Ireland with Protestants from England and Scotland, drawing on precedents dating back to the Norman invasion of Ireland in 1169."

Do you believe that we should still govern India?

Northern Ireland has only been a country since 1921 after the British Government stitched up the Catholics by claiming only six counties instead of the nine in Ulster designed to give the Protestants the majority in the newly formed Country.

What about the rights of all Ireland's Celts/Catholics?

 

Even Winston Churchill, who was in that government in 1921 believed there should be a united Ireland...

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/...hope-there-will-be-a-united-ireland-1.2076998

 

I don't want to be a cynic, but for all of the wonderful creative things that humans can and have achieved, we ultimately seem limited. There is still so much destruction, greed and power craving in the world, with the civilised nations dressing up economic gain as humanitarian care like we are stupid. I like this quote

"The need is not really for more brains, the need is now for a gentler, a more tolerant people than those who won for us against the ice, the tiger and the bear. The hand that hefted the ax, out of some old blind allegiance to the past fondles the machine gun as lovingly. It is a habit man will have to break to survive, but the roots go very deep.”