Off Topic Politics Thread

[ChilcoSaint]

After much debate your moderators have agreed to create this thread so that people can discuss political issues, One of the reasons we took so long to agree this was because in the early days of this site there was a lot of overheated argument about politics which resulted in people leaving the site.So, there are certain rules which have to be stuck to by everybody, or the thread will be closed.
1. Because this thread has been created to discuss politics, there are to be NO political issues raised on any other thread, including Les’s Lounge of Loquaciousness. One of the reasons for keeping this topic in one place is to give those who want to keep out of it an easy way of avoiding it.
2. As on all other threads on the Southampton board, debate is to be conducted as between friends. While widely diverse views will obviously be aired, there are to be NO personal insults or disrespect of other people's views.
3. People should try to agree to disagree about issues where differences exist. Please don't let's have pages and pages of back-and-forth point-scoring, which is overwhelmingly tedious to those not involved in the discussion.
4. If you are upset or offended by something someone posts, please don't start arguing with them. Use the Report button which will bring the offending post to the Mods' attention and you can leave it to us to deal with it. Use the PM function (the little envelope at the top right of the screen) if you want to ask the mods about anything, short of reporting a post. To remind you, the Southampton moderators are: Beddytare, Channonfodder, st_brendy, and myself, ChilcoSaint.

Any posts violating these rules will be deleted and action taken against the offender(s). This action can range between a simple warning, then a ban from the thread, right up to a temporary or permanent site ban. Obviously, this is the last thing we mods want to do, so please don't give us any reason to.

Enjoy the debate!

 

[SaintinSerbia]

What have the Romans ever done for us?

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[SaintinSerbia]

What did the EU ever do for us?

Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.
All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.
It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980.
Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future.

 

[SaintinSerbia]

that should get it started!

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

Thank you very much mods

 

[Onionman]

I'll tell you one thing the EU did for me.

Many years ago I had to travel to Dublin to demonstrate a computer system. I spent a morning finding out what the regulations were regarding moving the equipment. Then I went to the "local" customs office (in Manchester, 20 miles from Warrington, where I worked). There they looked at the kit, gave me a form that I filled in and took with me to Dublin. There they checked and signed the form on the way in and again on the way out. Then, on my return, I went down to Manchester again and had them counterstamp the whole thing.

I reckon a conservative estimate was a day wasted.

Nowadays, the process would be; take kit to Dublin, bring it back.

It's easy to forget nonsense like that. Multiply by a million and the cost is enormous.

If for no other reason, I'll be voting to stay.

Vin

 

[Onionman]

And thank you, mods. The above may well be my last post on this thread but I'll be eternally grateful for not seeing politics in Koeman's.

Vin

 

[Clem Fandango]

When I was 13 I use to wear a t shirt with a picture of Trotsky on it. Now days I leave it to the adults.

 

[Whiteley Saint]

I'm just curious but has Boris Johnson joining the out campaign made any difference whatsoever to anyone's decision making? The way the media is going on I wondered if I was the only one who really didn't care.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

I'm just curious but has Boris Johnson joining the out campaign made any difference whatsoever to anyone's decision making? The way the media is going on I wondered if I was the only one who really didn't care.

I think the vast majority of people will have already made their minds up ages ago whether they want Britain to stay or go, and neither Cameron's deal, nor Boris's decision, will make any difference at all to most people.

 

[San Tejón]

Two things I would like to see, during the build up to the EU referendum are:-
1) A truly independent body, putting forward the pros and cons of staying/leaving.
2) An accurate, and up to date list showing which MPs are linked to which businesses, through "directorships, consultancy and/or receipt of freebies", so we can gauge if the advice they are giving to the public is based on what is good for the people, who they represent via the ballot box, and not good for the company/companies that are putting money into their bank accounts.

And after that we can try for world peace.

 

[TheSecondStain]

Two things I would like to see, during the build up to the EU referendum are:-
1) A truly independent body, putting forward the pros and cons of staying/leaving.
2) An accurate, and up to date list showing which MPs are linked to which businesses, through "directorships, consultancy and/or receipt of freebies", so we can gauge if the advice they are giving to the public is based on what is good for the people, who they represent via the ballot box, and not good for the company/companies that are putting money into their bank accounts.

And after that we can try for world peace.

You'll get 1] from a decent media source. I'm bound to say the BBC. As long as you take no notice of editorial comment and bias you can make up your own mind. If you find a source for 2] then put it up here as I'd like to see it too in transparent democracy Britain.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

What did the EU ever do for us?

Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.
All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.
It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980.
Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future.

Yeah, but apart from that...

 

[VVD]

I think the vast majority of people will have already made their minds up ages ago whether they want Britain to stay or go, and neither Cameron's deal, nor Boris's decision, will make any difference at all to most people.

I think the migrant crisis will have certainly made up a few people's minds already, both for and against.

 

[Beddy]

I still cannot make my mind up. Being in has its benefits just as I can see the out point of view. From a personal point of view I find it particularly difficult to believe politicians are not somehow lining there own pockets in one way or other. Events over the last few years for me has created the mistrust which makes it so difficult to believe anyone.

 

[Missing Lambo]

I struggle to see how Call-me-Dave coming back with an agreement on croissants, or whatever it is, has had any effect at all. Albeit he gave an excellent speech in the Commons. (Yes folks, old Marxist tips hat at Tory Premier. How would the Mail cope with that?). Big Boris staking his claim means as little

If my local community is a random sample, then people are voting according to the prejudices they have always held. I think being in the EU is a good thing. Why? Well, it's nice to be close to people. See what I mean? Or, I want out because I don't like being told what to do by Brussels.

We are relying on a population that didn't vote for One Direction on the X Factor or the best dancer on Strictly. We're doomed I tell you.

 

[Lff]

I think the vast majority of people will have already made their minds up ages ago whether they want Britain to stay or go, and neither Cameron's deal, nor Boris's decision, will make any difference at all to most people.

Not me. I'm a genuine, "don't know".
I voted, "in" when we had the original vote. So, sorry, partly my fault.

Reason's for leaving would be the colossal amounts of money they waste (the complete opposite of Onionmans's argument). They used to rotate the HQ between Brussels and Strasbourg to keep the French happy, cost €200m plus a year. Do they still do this? I know they voted against it but the French vetoed it. Plus 1000s of staff in Luxembourg of course!
Years ago, I visited our MEP, James Hill, in Brussels. At one point during our discussion he had to break off to vote. Now, he had taken no part, active or passive, in the debate because he had been talking to me. So, in effect, the debate was completely irrelevant and the cost of him being there was just money for nothing (and that is insignificant in relation to other major, equally unnecessary costs).

Then there is the ridiculous concept of further political integration. Lets face it Scotland even wants independence from Britain so how anyone expects the whole of Europe to be one 'United State' I don't know.

Reasons for staying, basically the great unknown. No one actually knows what will happen, how the rest of Europe will treat us etc. It would be a gamble.

 

[Missing Lambo]

I still cannot make my mind up. Being in has its benefits just as I can see the out point of view. From a personal point of view I find it particularly difficult to believe politicians are not somehow lining there own pockets in one way or other. Events over the last few years for me has created the mistrust which makes it so difficult to believe anyone.

You trying to usurp me as the Board's most cynical poster?

 

[Beddy]

You trying to usurp me as the Board's most cynical poster?

No mate over to you for that.

 

[Beef]

Not me. I'm a genuine, "don't know".
I voted, "in" when we had the original vote. So, sorry, partly my fault.

Reason's for leaving would be the colossal amounts of money they waste (the complete opposite of Onionmans's argument). They used to rotate the HQ between Brussels and Strasbourg to keep the French happy, cost €200m plus a year. Do they still do this? I know they voted against it but the French vetoed it. Plus 1000s of staff in Luxembourg of course!
Years ago, I visited our MEP, James Hill, in Brussels. At one point during our discussion he had to break off to vote. Now, he had taken no part, active or passive, in the debate because he had been talking to me. So, in effect, the debate was completely irrelevant and the cost of him being there was just money for nothing (and that is insignificant in relation to other major, equally unnecessary costs).

Then there is the ridiculous concept of further political integration. Lets face it Scotland even wants independence from Britain so how anyone expects the whole of Europe to be one 'United State' I don't know.

Reasons for staying, basically the great unknown. No one actually knows what will happen, how the rest of Europe will treat us etc. It would be a gamble.

Same I haven't a clue which side to vote.
The EU stop some ****ty rules trying to be bought in by the Tories. But then have **** rules themselves that we have to veto.

The EU also stopped us giving aid to our steel industry. Yet France were allowed to give aid to theirs. Guess what France were the ones that vetoed us...

The Tories can't be trusted to run the country with no one keeping them in place. I could seethe NHS and peoples privacy being effected big time.

The only point that doesn't matter is the mps on the in or out side. They are all twats.