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Off Topic Political Debate

Discussion in 'Watford' started by Leo, Aug 31, 2014.

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  1. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    You could say the same thing about the two main parties in the UK when it comes down to what they are saying. Both main parties are splitting, Labour in the full glare of the public, and the Tories are managing to keep it under wraps for now, but would be quite happy to get rid of the loony right wing. Established parties have not brought the UK to some utopia, so how long before the population reject them? It happened in Scotland.
     
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  2. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    The UK have rejected the Labour Party because of the extreme left turn the leaders have taken. Fortunately the Conservatives have no such problem. Theresa May is currently one of the popular PM's we have had for a long time. The chances are the Tories will extend their majority and make progress in Scotland where the LP are expected to be wiped out. The Tories should have a healthy majority for the next five years plus the prospect of boundary changes which will help secure an extra 20 seats or so. The millions of UKIP voters will gradually return to the Tories, no wonder Kinnock cannot see a Labour victory in his lifetime. The electorate appreciate record employment and low unemployment, very different from France.
     
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  3. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    Do you REALLY believe current Tory policies will unite this country. Sadly Mrs May speaks about unity but policy after policy is about marginalisation of the poor and privatisation of our services ... so some other body can run a poorer service and make money out of it.....Outrageous
     
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  4. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    I believe the Conservatives are the only party that can unite the country. Labour are in disarray and the Lib Dems are so immaterial its MP's can nearly fit in one taxi. May will move further towards the middle ground after the election to broaden the already substantial appeal of the Tory party.
     
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  5. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    I think that what we have is populations in both England and France that are deeply disillusioned with the main parties and are seeking something different. When it comes down to social issues, England lags behind France, but the route that Mrs May is taking does not allow her to look outside the box, and take the country into something that is fairer for all. Both main parties have to change in a huge way to get anything like unity in the country.
     
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  6. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    The political situation in the UK is completely different from France. There is political turmoil in France with the two main parties being rejected in favour of an extreme right wing candidate and a politician without a party. In contrast the UK has a settled government with the Conservatives likely to extend its seven years in power with an increased majority. The Lib Dems will see a small revival which is par for the course in British politics. Where there is a similarity with France is the meltdown of the Labour Party which is down to infighting and poor leader selection.

    France lags far behind the UK in employment, growth and inward investment. It also has a much poorer record of integrating migrants. Where it does excel is in its long term unemployment statistics, particularly hard hit are the young in France nearly 25% are without a job. This is more than double the UK rate. At the moment France is one of the most politically disunited countries in Europe.
     
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  7. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    Remember the words of a song by Pink Floyd which contain the lines 'Hanging on in quiet desparation is the English way' ? The main difference is that the British only 'grumble', whereas the French take action. You say that France is more disunited than the UK. yet France is not in any imminent danger of breaking up (I don't think that the Corsican or Breton separatists are that far). You say that France has not integrated its immigrants as well as the UK. yet it is not France which is running away from the EU. mostly because of the failure to integrate a few thousand Rumanians. 'Model Britain' is neither stable nor successfull. You know that the difference in life expectancy between Hull and Kensington is over 10 years - there is no other country in the EU. which has such a difference within it. Britain has had over 200 years to resolve the north-south divide yet has failed - has had 200 years to integrate Liverpool but has failed. Britain is also the only country in Europe where, because of the peculiar voting system, the majority are always against the government, and this is really divisive over the longer term. We have the ongoing spectacle of governments claiming majorities based on 34-36%, and populations (on the other side) scratching their heads saying 'I didn't vote for that'. Differences in wealth are also greater in the UK. than in France (and are getting worse) - but the 'me first' mentality which characterizes so many British people over the last 20 years is not worried about that unless he trips over it in the street (in which case he wants it better hidden). Britain is a far more divided nation than France.
     
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  8. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    If the UK was that divided it would show its dissatisfaction with the political party that has governed for the last seven years. In fact the opposite is happening, the present government will not only be re-elected but will also make progress in Scotland. The political left in the UK has been thoroughly rejected as the country firmly prefers a right of centre base, this is the norm now. The Conservatives will govern for the next five years making a stable period of twelve years of responsible government. This has already regularly produced the highest growth in Europe and the lowest unemployment levels.

    The UK electorate do not want to change its electoral system, we are quite happy with the present one, thanks.
     
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  9. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    The UK is divided, between north and south, haves and have nots etc, and despite an election that the Tories will probably win, it will still be a minority of the population that support it. If as is widely expected Macron becomes the next President, he will at least be someone that the majority of the population have voted for.
     
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  10. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    'Twelve years of responsible government' - is this supposed to be a joke. We have seen a Tory PM. running so scared of defections from his party that he called a totally unnecessary referendum which he thought he would win but then lost - he then ran away from the consequences, allowing others to mop up after him. We were duped into voting for something which had no plan behind it - lied to by Tories from both sides of the debate, and this has placed us in a position where the future unity of the UK. is in jeopardy. We have alienated ourselves from our best partners and customers in the hope of replacing them with hypothetical future ones (something which no businessman on this planet would risk doing) - so far so that we have seen our PM. fawning over Trump - a person who is no different to Marine Le Pen in his politics. The Tories are currently dragging Britain through the gutter in terms of its image in the World.
     
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  11. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Can I take it you won't be supporting the Tories!! :emoticon-0128-hi:
     
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  12. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Have you noticed your views on politics and Brexit always seem to be at odds with the British public?. Socialists in the UK are disappearing quicker than Scotland's oil supplies!!.
     
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  13. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    It is only the peculiar system of the French election having a runoff between two candidates. Given more choice Macron could only muster less than 25% of a free vote, hardly any endorsement. As you have previously said, any candidate would win against the Front National candidate, using the traditional blocking tactic.
     
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  14. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    Not really. The system is quite fair as it gives plenty of options for minor candidates to get their share of TV time, newspaper coverage etc, but then having listened and voted, that is narrowed down to a final choice. In the UK candidates outside of the main political parties get little or no coverage, and we have seen that all it produces is a ping pong of votes in a very small number of towns that decide the outcome of a general election. What we have now is a person of the centre, that people from both sides of the UK political divide find acceptable, who will find getting the country moving in a different direction difficult, but if he is elected it does nothing to make the negotiations between the EU and the UK any easier.
     
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  15. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Having less than 25% of the free vote will not help Macron as he tries to negotiate with other parties to rule France. He has already shown his inexperience and lack of manners during his visit to number 10. His belligerence will only add to the exceptional support the PM is currently enjoying. There could be a lot of turbulence in French politics whoever wins the second round.
     
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  16. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    I am surprised you are mentioning manners SH.... not something I have noticed in your repertoire...
     
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  17. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    We agreed no personal attacks, that presumably includes you.
     
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  18. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    merely an observation,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
     
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  19. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Debretts would pronounce your lack of etiquette as 'a lack of manners' dear Sir.
     
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  20. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    If manners maketh man..... the human race clearly has a long way to go.
     
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