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Official Not606 Bahrain GP Chat and Predictions

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by EternalMSC, Mar 30, 2014.

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Is This Poll Better? Answers Up Your Arse Please.

Poll closed Apr 4, 2014.
  1. Nico Rosberg

    22.0%
  2. Lewis Hamilton

    61.0%
  3. Fernando Alonso

    4.9%
  4. Jenson Button

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Kevin Magnussen

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Nico Hulkenberg

    4.9%
  7. Sebastian Vettel

    7.3%
  8. Valtteri Bottas

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Kimi Raikkonen!!!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Felipe Massa

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Other, PLEASE MENTION IN BOLD

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. 51LV3R8RR04

    51LV3R8RR04 Well-Known Member

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    That it still won't be applied to road cars as ASC highlights, only F1 cars and so it has no actual use in F1 apart from being an advantage against your rivals. Considering F1 is trying to be more "road relevant" logic suggests that this advantage could possibly be banned even if it does cut down fuel slightly.

    No need to be condescending btw Ernie.
     
    #941
  2. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    The cold air feed for a compressor on a road car is at the FRONT of the engine, usually where the turbo is also situated. In an F1 car, the turbo is at teh BACK of an engine, hence the need to have the compressor at the FRONT of the engine for maximum effect.

    Rather than get all up-your-own-arse on it, read exactly what I said again inmy original post to understand what I was saying about how Mercedes system is not beneficial to a normal road car for ALL the reasons I stated, not just the sentence you cherry picked out to make yourself (in your head) look smart.
     
    #942
  3. 51LV3R8RR04

    51LV3R8RR04 Well-Known Member

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    Efficiency with fuel or reliability you're trying to highlight BLS with this turbo? Very true the EBD wasted fuel but it's more a comparison on the lines of it not being "road relevant" rather than more fuel being burnt is what I'm interested in.

    *Has anybody found any actual facts on how much fuel they saved compared with their rivals?* Just because they can go faster doesn't mean it's more fuel efficient, for all we know it just helps them burn fuel even faster in comparison to get the most out of every drop.

    Sorry but I have no knowledge in engineering.
     
    #943
  4. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    Engine manufacturers wanted to be developing more road-relevant technology, I don't believe there's anything mandated in the rules that says what they produce must have a real world application, is there?
     
    #944
  5. GramP

    GramP Member

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    51LV3R8RR04

    Regarding your post made at Today, 02:35 PM

    I am a bit confused and I would appreciate if you would clarify your point.

    This is your quote

    “modify the chassis to accommodate the lesser design the other Mercedes team have to deal with.”

    You seem to imply, on first reading, that Mercedes supply different (less efficient) power units to their teams. This is simply not true.

    Under the FIA rules the power units that Mercedes provide to their teams have to be identical. The 6 separate components are not “plug and play”. You can not move them around to suit yourself.
     
    #945
  6. 51LV3R8RR04

    51LV3R8RR04 Well-Known Member

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    I was lead to believe by Sky Sports that the turbo layout was different in the works Mercedes compared to the customers so Mercedes were able to use this option fully while the customers had to have a more compromised model/setup as their chassis conflicted with the new gearbox placements etc. I swear I heard Brundle say something like that.

    My bad if I was incorrect.
     
    #946
  7. ErnieBecclestone

    ErnieBecclestone Well-Known Member

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    Me condescending, and oh yes it will.
     
    #947
  8. 51LV3R8RR04

    51LV3R8RR04 Well-Known Member

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    So what do you reckon about what ASC highlights above then?
     
    #948
  9. ErnieBecclestone

    ErnieBecclestone Well-Known Member

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    The inlet combustion air for a normal road car turbo layout passes through the HOT turbo compressor which is situated on the exhaust system probably at the rear of the engine, what Mercedes have done is to geographically effect thermal separation of the turbine and compressor, this system will be adopted over time by all engine manufacturers, why because its power gain = economy for nothing, other than a hardware rethink, simple.

    And its space and cost effective as no intercooler would be required.

    Also I am fortunate enough to drive a 400hp turbo road car and understand the effects of air temperature upon performance or economy if you prefer.

    Why on earth do you think it will not be adopted.

     
    #949
  10. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
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    Double?
     
    #950

  11. 51LV3R8RR04

    51LV3R8RR04 Well-Known Member

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    Well this is all very interesting stuff, can't wait to see how much is eventually used in their road cars 10 years down the line then.
     
    #951
  12. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately I cannot claim to have 400bhp in my road car. I am therefore clearly unqualified to make any kind of comment or opinion on the matter of the relevance of turbocharging on an internet forum. I shall ensure that next time I post about the use of turbo charging on a 'normal' road car, I will go down to the local out of town retail park and consult with the under 21's Evo owners club, where they all drive 'normal' turbocharged road cars.

    I apologise for wasting everyone's time.

    Ernie is God, Ernie is God. Long live Ernie.
     
    #952
  13. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    The innovation in the design is Porsche, I believe, and has been simply 'borrowed' by Mercedes.
     
    #953
  14. 51LV3R8RR04

    51LV3R8RR04 Well-Known Member

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    If you want to look at the comparison on the road cars they seem to be looking for in 1.4L to 1.6L engines I guess this would be the group they're aiming for: http://cars.uk.msn.com/features/green-motoring/top-10-most-economical-cars

    Don't think many of them go above 200bhp, so having all that extra power seems pointless in that area of road car relevance to me anyway unless the reliability improvement was considerable.
     
    #954
  15. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    My turbo desiel has a 'rear' mounted turbo. I've fettled a little but its got to the stage where it needs a bigger FMIC and to be frank I can't be bothered <laugh>

    VAG (VW group) are pushing their 1.4 turbo/supercharged engine in their little hot hatches, the seperate compressor could end up in engines like this. The new Fabia VRS has this engine and thats a sub 20k car, what I'd call a real world car. 180bhp and ~45mpg from a 1.4 petrol. Out of this world compared to engines less than 10 years ago. Think of the previous Focus ST, 225bhp from a engine almost twice as big and with sub 30mpg economy.

    The F1 version is of course miles from real world, but look at the other F1 tech that reached the 'real world', that to was exotic at the time.
     
    #955
  16. 51LV3R8RR04

    51LV3R8RR04 Well-Known Member

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    please log in to view this image
     
    #956
  17. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    It's the mechanical nature and added complexity that I can't see making it to road cars, for the benefit it will give to a 'normal' road car.

    I don't doubt that on Ernie's '400bhp' car and other powerful cars the effect will be noticeable, but to start adding additional components, shafts etc to a 1.2 3/4 cyl car, is the expense going to be worth it for what precious little performance gain you will get from it? It seems an overcomplication on a simple design that was already being perfected before this new way of installing the turbo components came along.

    The energy recovery systems will be more relevant. My 3-series (side mounted turbo) harnesses power when its coasting along to recharge the battery etc, that will no doubt be imprvoed upon in newer models to soon release this energy directly back to the engine, so hybrid technology will become the norm rather than the exception. This i think (and it is my personal opinion) is more relevant to real world motoring than seperating the two main elements of a turbo for minor performance/cooling/efficiency gains, even if that is available and measurable with a small capacity low-revving engine.
     
    #957
  18. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    I think its hard to predict what car manufacturers will take up. If you look at the early 90's then nearly all diesels were n/a, its only a relatively new thing for 'all' diesels to be turbo diesels. Even the petrol cars are catching up now with many vehicles getting smaller capacity engines with the added gain of a turbo.

    I'd say we're not a million miles away from the external compressor being used in engines as cheap as the 'hot hatch' range.
     
    #958
  19. ErnieBecclestone

    ErnieBecclestone Well-Known Member

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    Where did you get that photo of me. Stunning !!
     
    #959
  20. ErnieBecclestone

    ErnieBecclestone Well-Known Member

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    Bollocks mate, its only opinions, nobody gets hurt, I cant help being an opinionated bastard, same as you, See you at the bar, your round again, mines a pint of best bitter,
     
    #960

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