Off Topic Off-Topic Thread (Anything Non-Football Related)

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by TheOXOCube:5pur2, Feb 23, 2015.

  1. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    41,077
    Likes Received:
    5,000
    I'd say that most practicising theists are moderate and fundamentalists are both rare and distinct.
    http://www.britannica.com/topic/fundamentalism

    The Tory party attempted to link Khan and Labour to various extremists and terrorists, not just fundamentlists.
    I found the idea that publicly debating against people with poor ideas establishes a connection with them to be in very poor taste.
    Speak out and you're still somehow supporting them, don't and you're doing it by your silence. Ridiculous.
     
    #2061
  2. Highburyal

    Highburyal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,210
    Likes Received:
    873
    Majority of terms on that article that describes islamist/fundementalist are actually majority of the muslims, even i would say over 90% of the muslims believe the quran to be sacred and literal word of god and its a way of life not to be picked and choosen as you like.
     
    #2062
  3. Highburyal

    Highburyal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,210
    Likes Received:
    873
    The difference being not everyone agrees with people like ISIS or the Saudi regime, there is no kingship is islam, but you will find majority believe in khilafa not the same as ISIS category or way of life.

    Although islam does say to follow the law of the land, and if it stops you from following your religion then emigrate or change the situation by engaging and debating.

    Lot of people misunderstand and media/goverments dont help either by proclaiming oh they want to establish sharia law, where as sharia literally means law, its fear mongering and creating divisions between people and communities.
     
    #2063
  4. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    41,077
    Likes Received:
    5,000
    I'm not sure that I agree in practice, though I do agree that most would answer positively if you asked them directly.
    Multiple people can read the inerrant word of god and come to completely different conclusions about what it actually means, though.
    Fundamentalists tend to be extremely literal and rather backwards about everything, while others come to other conclusions.
     
    #2064
  5. Highburyal

    Highburyal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,210
    Likes Received:
    873
    I agree people do have difderent opinions of the meaning, but overall there is a general consensus as to what various text means and the scholars are accepted as authority on the subject and nothing stops anyone from learning the language and researching either.
     
    #2065
  6. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    41,077
    Likes Received:
    5,000
    There may be an overall scholarly consensus as to what each passage means, but that doesn't mean that this has been passed on to the average layman.
    I'm sure that a quick browse on the internet would reveal a wide variety of claims on various passages, all from within the community.
    The same is true of virtually any religion, in my experience.
     
    #2066
  7. PISKIE

    PISKIE Roasted Spuds
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    44,563
    Likes Received:
    5,971
    Changing the subject entirely. Brix Smith answered my question on Radio 5 live today regarding why, back in 1991 at Brixton Academy, Mark E Smith decided to prowl the front of the stage, collect all of the set lists from the amps and monitors, neatly fold them up, put them into his back pocket and then walk off stage instead of handing one out to a young Fall fan in the front row holding out his hands hoping for a bit of band memorabilia.

    All is forgiven ......
     
    #2067
  8. Highburyal

    Highburyal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,210
    Likes Received:
    873
    I couldnt speak for other religions, but you will find to be honest muslims are generally quite well versed in their religion, quran is probably the only religious book out there that is memorised completely by millions of people around the world. There are few school of thoughts within islam which is the main stream islam and are accepted widely and those scholars have given their opinions (tafsir) which is actually widely accepted i would say more 90% of the muslims.
     
    #2068
  9. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    41,077
    Likes Received:
    5,000
    My experience would suggest something similar, but I think that many theists disregard some of the less attractive ideas of their own faiths.
    I've yet to see anyone stand up for slavery, for example, despite it being supported by each of the Abrahamic religions.
    There are certain parts of each faith that are vastly more well known and celebrated though, of course.
     
    #2069
  10. Highburyal

    Highburyal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,210
    Likes Received:
    873
    I dont think they disregard it though, some things and rulings are time constraint is meant for that time to bring the believers so to speak in line and correct understanding.

    I myself as a muslim dont shy away from debates, its gets irritating when people start getting abusive and name calling.
     
    #2070

  11. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    41,077
    Likes Received:
    5,000
    I disagree with your time constraint point.
    How can something written to be eternal and unchanging have a time limit set on the principles that it sets out?

    Politics, religion and football. All guaranteed to produce name calling and abuse and all on one thread! <laugh>
     
    #2071
  12. Highburyal

    Highburyal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,210
    Likes Received:
    873
    We shall carry on this debate tomorrow and i will give you some examples of rulings. For now my bed is calling me and have an early start tomorrow, need my beauty sleep, whereas you spuds dont need itnas it wont improve anything ☺
     
    #2072
    PleaseNotPoll likes this.
  13. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    41,077
    Likes Received:
    5,000
    You're right. It's impossible to improve on perfection. :grin:
     
    #2073
    Highburyal likes this.
  14. Kifflom!

    Kifflom! Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    11,599
    Likes Received:
    5,836
    Sorry to but in but Islam's problems stem from Mohammed's own dichotomy. A peaceful trader turned self-proclaimed prophet in Mecca (the version most Mulims prefer) then a violent, brutal warlord who spread his religion with the sword in Medina (the version that fundamentalists follow). And it is fundamental, not 'extreme'. There is a school of thought that in fact there is only fundamental Islam. Anything else isn't Islam.

    Most Islamic scholars who are honest about it acknowledge that during his later life Mohammed denounced the earlier, peaceful suras in the Qur'an (Islamic abrogation) leaving just the violent calls to Jihad. Peaceful Muslims know this to be true but conveniently ignore it, and I'm glad they do, whilst acknowledging the violent period in his life saying he was 'defending Islam' (not true at all) or that calls to kill infidels have to be put into an historical context (that's arguably just a fig leaf).

    Islam has a huge problem because of this. Ignorant politicians who say it's a 'religion of peace' have never opened a Qur'an and are merely virtue-signalling moderation for the Muslim vote. Islam is more than a religion. It's 600 odd years behind the curve of Christianity and we know what they were like back in the day. It's a way of life, a pseudo-political dogma that preaches supremacy over all others. This isn't racist or bogoted. It's fact. Mohammed is meant to be the 'perfect man', the man that all Muslims must emulate. Yet this is a man who ordered the beheading of 800 Jews at the Battle of The Trench (if the young men had pubic hair they died) and who took the widows and young girls as sex slaves. If this sounds familiar it should. The sub-humans in ISIS even crucify dogs when they catch them because of Mohammed's dislike of our canine friends.

    I have Muslim friends in Egypt, speak some Arabic and find that in general Muslims are just ordinary people, even if I disagree with their beliefs. As Ayaan Hirsi Ali rightly says they are the only people who can reform Islam as it has to be done from within. I'm sure it will come but 'moderates' first have to recognise the problem and stop being so damned defensive. Repeatedly pushing your fingers deep into your ear canals and saying that ISIS isn't Islam is part of the problem. 92% of Saudis believe that ISIS follows the tenets of the Qur'an. What does that tell you? The violent verses of Jihad have to be denounced - and loudly. Whilst 'moderates' believe the Qur'an is the perfect word and cannot be touched the violence will continue.
     
    #2074
    PISKIE and winifred122 like this.
  15. winifred122

    winifred122 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,091
    Likes Received:
    146
    I would like to wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New Year. COYG!
     
    #2075
    PISKIE and lazarus20000 like this.
  16. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    846
    Wishing you and everyone else a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Let's hope that Trump doesn't do anything too silly!
     
    #2076
  17. PISKIE

    PISKIE Roasted Spuds
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    44,563
    Likes Received:
    5,971
    Happy Christmas, cool Yule and Love and Peas to all and one <cracker>
     
    #2077
  18. PISKIE

    PISKIE Roasted Spuds
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    44,563
    Likes Received:
    5,971
    I've got Muslim friends in Morocco, who I've known since 1998. Even back then they were scathing of parts of Islam that were used around the world to suppress other Muslims, Christians, and other Ethnic groups. The world has become a far more fragmented place since then and we've seen some horrors committed in the name of Islam. True that 99% of Muslims are peace loving, but I agree that you cannot escape the doctrines in the Qur'an that that preach violence and hate against non muslims or infidels. My personal view is that Religion (as opposed to spirituality) is a big problem in the world and a massive hangover from another time. The trouble is that so many people pin their absolute existence on the teachings of a particular book and are blind to the diversity in the world.
     
    #2078
    Kifflom! and TheBear like this.
  19. PISKIE

    PISKIE Roasted Spuds
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    44,563
    Likes Received:
    5,971
    I want to make it clear that my post above isn't singling out Islam alone for criticism, in my opinion all religions ~(perhaps with the exception of Buddhism) are guilty of diversive tactics amongst believers and non believers. And all use the device of deferrng one's own spiritual journey and enlightenment to a doctrine which must be strictly adhered to.
     
    #2079
    Kifflom!, TheBear and winifred122 like this.
  20. Treble

    Treble Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    19,852
    Likes Received:
    6,652
    Disapointed mate. Hw can you say you're not singling out Islam and then "like" the complete bullshit that Kifflom has just posted above. It's utter rubbish, and this is from someone who's studied religiion including Islam. The trouble is there are far too many bigots using tragedies like Berlin to peddle their lies. @Kifflom! is one of those.
     
    #2080
    Spurlock likes this.

Share This Page