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Grand Prix thread Not606 2016 Belgium Grand Prix Chat and Predictions

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by taeleon, Aug 22, 2016.

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Place your bets for your top driver for the race!

Poll closed Aug 28, 2016.
  1. Lewis Hamilton

    18.8%
  2. Nico Rosberg

    62.5%
  3. Daniel Ricciardo

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Kimi Raikkonen

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Sebastian Vettel

    12.5%
  6. Max Verstappen

    6.3%
  7. Valtteri Bottas

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Sergio Perez

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Felipe Massa

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Other, please state in bold in the thread.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    If the stewards at letting this fly then the drivers are going to have to make some choices. A lot of Max today was yield or crash, it may be better in the long run to let the crash happen so that Max will be less keen to try a crash or yield move on you.

    If you are robust with others then you run the risk of them being robust with you. At the moment though no one is being robust back, despite the stewards ok-ing it all.
     
    #161
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  2. dhel

    dhel Well-Known Member

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    I could see what you are saying, but to let a crash happen at the speed Kimi was coming at Max with....hmmmm someone might have died there.
     
    #162
  3. Mrcento

    Mrcento Active Member

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    The start... I think Verstappen is getting too much blame for the first one, it was a relatively ballsy move, we'll never know if he'd have made it without hitting Raikkonen, but by the time they would have likely contacted it would probably have been no more than banging tyres. Vettel was to blame, he says himself he couldn't see Kimi, so why is he turning in early? you can't assume he's not there or he'll get out your way (even if he was able to, which he wasn't), it was a total dick move, honestly believe the fact he was outqualified by him made him a bit more punchy, saw a chance to jump him early doors and cut him off, ended up ruining 2 "innocent" drivers races.

    Verstappen for the 2 moves on Raikkonen, first one is absolutely borderline, very very tough but probably just about a racing incident. Second one is way over the line. We've seen drivers penalised for not giving others "racing room". How the hell was that giving Raikkonen "Racing room" when somebody has to hit the brakes on a straight to avoid a 200mph crash? you can't chop someone off after he'd already started to make the move. Very much a case of him rather crashing out than be passed. The fact he effectively said in the interviews afterwards that the Ferraris had ruined his race so he was being extra tough with them just shows what a jumped up so and so he is. He won't learn until he causes a major accident and gets a suspension IMO.
     
    #163
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  4. Viva_Giggsy

    Viva_Giggsy Well-Known Member

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    Can't believe Rosberg got a penalty last race for that overtake on rate boy. Yet he gets no penalty for ruining both Ferrari's race at the start then trying to run Kimi off the road. There is a couple of drivers that get away with lot more then the rest.
     
    #164
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  5. TopClass

    TopClass Well-Known Member

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    You sum it up very well.

    As Raikkonen has said- good hard racing is what we all want.

    Last minute weaves causing a stop or crash decision is not.

    Max seems to think only about the racing and not the impending accident he is likely to cause as a result of defending like this, which is why I now think he has come into F1 too early. It's not like Karting here- accidents can be at 200 MPH and he has no respect for that whatsoever. You've just got this massive ego who thinks he's going to win world titles yet he's not had to earn the right to be here with experience, meaning he hasn't learnt the lessons others have.

    Hamilton when he came on the scene was a good hard racer but he didn't weave in defence like this did he??


    He really has come across like a school kid and not only is it embarassing, it is dangerous.

    He worried me last year and he now worries me even more.
     
    #165
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  6. moreinjuredthanowen

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    I think the start was both verstappen and raikkonen's fault

    1. I would love to know just where precisely verstappen thought his car would go form where he stuck it on a kerb . he was always going to but go across the track and end up hitting someone form there.

    2. Raikkonen squeezed his own team mate in and cut his nose off. That was ridiculous

    If the ferrari team had a choice they'd have taken being 4th and 5th as i think they'd both have got on the podium form how the race turned out.


    also verstappen was weaving IMO. He's reacting to others moves and swerving into them then back not making his move to defend.

    someone needs to plough him into a wall to teach him a lesson. A 190mph shunt would soften his cough for sure.

    I agree on hamilton, he's spicy but he's never put others in true danger.


    .....................

    Did mccalren get done after for unsafe pit release? there was a haas pit crew member in direct line of fire there and that IMO is unacceptable.
     
    #166
  7. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member
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    If you watch the onboard Verstappen steering input is questionable on both the Kimi and Perez moved (this is ultimately the Rosberg debate) and once he has opened up the steering he leaves the track?

    Rosberg never left the track? This is another example of the massive and blatant inconsistency.
     
    #167
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  8. moreinjuredthanowen

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    well in one of the moves i thought both he and raikkonen were both off the track as all 4 wheels were off yet kimi had to give the place up.

    I think it is certainly inconsistant and it directly affects race results.
     
    #168
  9. EternalMSC

    EternalMSC Well-Known Member

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    Kimi got a penalty for barely cutting the pit entry whilst fighting Ricciardo in Baku. Verstappen got NOTHING for damaging cars, forcing drivers off track and aggressive/unfair defending. This is F1's dirty politics running at full chat.
     
    #169
  10. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    Verstappen drives like Hamilton and suddenly everyone cries foul
     
    #170

  11. Sportista

    Sportista Well-Known Member

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    People said the same about Hamilton didn't they? I'm sure many would again if he finds a himself in a car in the future where he needs to go back to such tactics?

    I'm not condoning such actions - I'm suggesting there's no inconsistency here, aside from any fanboys that no-one listens to, any way.
     
    #171
  12. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    Do you think Max should have had a penalty? If so, for which incident, or both, and why?

    At least come on here and try to enter into a discussion properly.
     
    #172
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  13. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member
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  14. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member
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    Martin Brundle

    "Quite how he has the audacity and confidence to then accuse other drivers of wrecking his race and crying foul on Nico Rosberg in Hockenheim is both highly impressive and slightly alarming

    I would put the first corner contact in Spa as 50/50 Vettel/Verstappen. The only thing Raikkonen was guilty of is making a great start and possibly being a little cautious in turn one. But then Kimi has been through there many times at the start of an F1 race and Max hasn't..."
     
    #174
  15. happyal

    happyal Active Member

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    I'll be honest and say that I didn't mind any of Max's moves on Sunday. Some were on the edge, and maybe even a little over it, but I think it's for the drivers to get together and stamp that type of over aggressive driving out, not for the stewards to take action after the event. I really don't like the current mentality of crying to teacher after every on track move.

    The only thing I would say to take, is that it needs to be consistent, you can't have one rule for the golden boys and another rule for the rest of the driver, and I think that is what is rubbing people up the wrong way more than anything else.
     
    #175
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  16. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    Cannot agree with everything you say. The one he did on the straight to Kimi was bang out of order and should have had a penalty, especially as he has previous for it. He clearly doesn't give a toss what the other drivers think, so the stewards need to step in and dish out something to make him think again about blocking in that way. You cannot make a move that late, you can hear Kimi lift (and change down) such was his closing speed in the tow and his need to avoid contact. No driver should have to brake half way down a straight because of the actions of another driver

    First corner I have no issue with, yes he had 4 wheels over the kerb at the apex, but that was more to try to avoid Kimi, who was being squeezed by Vettel. Three into one doesn't go and Max was not out of control going into that corner. Whether he was trying to do a 'Rosberg' we'll never know but I don't think that was the case as he was not alongside enough to make that work (or not as Rosberg has shown!).
     
    #176
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  17. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    Life is full of little bits of irony.

    "I mean what is he doing? It's dangerous. I'm riding over 300kph and he's blocking me."
    Verstappen, FP2.
     
    #177
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  18. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    It is set in stone that all F1 drivers must be oblivious of their own previous actions or comments when it suits them.
     
    #178
  19. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member
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    For me, the start was just stupid. There was more danger going for the overtake than opening the corner for a run on exit - and my view of multiple footage is he knowingly and intentionally went for the kerb which is off the track. Seb has to take some criticism, but even if the contact didn't happen between the Ferraris, Max would have collected them on the exit, causing havoc. However that is arguably a typical (but avoidable) 1st corner collision.

    However, he then cuts Eu Rouge like a mad man and leaves and rejoins the track multiple times on lap 1, again causing chaos. He can't use his front wing damage as an excuse because he is responsible for driving in a safe manor.

    The several exchanges at the end of the Kemel straight, probably sit within the tolerance of hard racing which we are asking for. However, watch the onboard cameras, he either can't slow the car down enough to make the corner or deliberately drives off track. Both of these are a breach of the current rules, and Rosberg never left the track on his previous exchange with Max the race prior. Subtlety is not a justification, the end result is an advantage and that currently warrants a penalty "under the current rules and their interpretation".

    The block down the straight is just down right dirty, but the main issue is that will never be his only move. A deliberate faint at a driver infers potential contact (or a threat of) - and that is no different to deliberately hitting someone.

    Rosberg's "intent" incidents have been slow speed and controlled, Verstappen's are at video game high speed.

    I have argued that the rules need scraping, 1 move only and no return is the only rule needed. Everything that follows should be between the drivers and not unfairly influenced by the stewards.
     
    #179
  20. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    I think he did the right thing in that respect. The front wing damage only became apparent on the run to Eau Rouge, his options were to then try and take Eau Rouge as quick as possible and accept he may cut the corner at the top with the loss of downforce, or back off going into Eau Rouge when everyone behind him wouldn't be expecting it. That would have been absolute carnage.

    Neither a great situation but I think he took the right decision. I don't know of any driver on the grid who would have backed off completely before Eau Rouge to allow the whole field through because part of their wing had gone, it was only the top elements as well and not the wing in its entirety.

    He will take a lot of flack from the weekend, but lets not bust his balls over everything.
     
    #180

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