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'NOT A COACH' Tony Adams: Arsene Wenger couldn’t coach his way out of a paper bag…

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by lazarus20000, May 19, 2017.

  1. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    'NOT A COACH' Tony Adams: Arsene Wenger couldn’t coach his way out of a paper bag… and Arsenal blocked me from returning FOUR times
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...senal-return-blocked-arsene-wenger-paper-bag/

    Gunners legend Adams believes that Wenger has not asked him back as Frenchman does not like big characters.

    LOOKING back, I believe there were a couple of major reasons why Arsene didn’t want me back at Arsenal.

    First, the club had put up a statue of me outside the Emirates and — given the career I’d had — it might have been difficult for Arsene to bring me in at that time.

    He was coming under pressure for not winning a major trophy and to have me around as a successful old captain might have highlighted the underachievement.

    Patrick Vieira once suggested Arsene does not like big characters and personalities around, especially ones from Arsenal’s history.

    Perhaps Arsene thought I might be too challenging for him.

    He seemed to like an assistant such as Pat Rice or Steve Bould, both great club men who were not going to ruffle feathers.

    Arsene is so dominant that he was probably not going to like it if I said, “We’re conceding bad goals, I’m going to take the back four today and organise them.”

    Because Arsene is essentially not a coach — and that is the second reason why I believe he didn’t want me. Back in the day I said in an interview coaching wasn’t Arsene’s strong point.

    Actually in the original draft, I said he couldn’t coach his way out of a paper bag. And though I modified that in the final article, it didn’t go down well.

    It all left me feeling that I would never get a chance in any capacity while Arsene was there.

    Much as I respected him for his long and successful tenure, my occasional willingness to pass comment on him and the team probably counted against me.

    Arsene was absolutely the best man for Arsenal when he had his English defence and more exotic overseas attacking talent.

    He was also the perfect manager to keep Arsenal competitive with the big-money clubs during the transition from Highbury to the Emirates. But I do believe, after the departures of Ashley Cole and Sol Campbell in 2006, a lot was lost and never recaptured.

    The replacement defenders have simply not been up to the same standard as what went before, because they have not been taught the art of defending properly.

    I have seen players like Gael Clichy, Hector Bellerin and Kieran Gibbs coming to Arsenal and not progressing as they might have — and Per Mertesacker exposed because of a lack of protection.

    I first tried to go back in early 2012, when I heard Pat Rice was retiring as Arsene’s assistant.

    Pat confirmed he would definitely be going in May — but when I spoke to Arsene about it he said “Oh no. He won’t retire. He said that last year.”

    He said he would be convincing Pat to stay, as he had done 12 months before. “Fair enough,” I said and shook his hand.

    Then came Pat’s leaving do, which Arsene did not attend. I texted him again and asked if I could come to see him.

    “I went to Pat’s leaving do and I understand there is a job going,” I said. “Oh no,” said Arsene. “I am moving Steve Bould and Neil Banfield up from the academy.” I texted Steve to congratulate him.

    He texted back to say he knew nothing about it. Two days later, Arsenal announced that Steve and Neil were stepping up. The next day, I texted Arsene to ask if I could come to see him again about the vacancy in the academy.

    This was three times in just over a month.

    Euro 2012 in Poland and Ukraine began and I’d heard nothing. Arsene texted that I should talk to Ivan Gazidis and Liam Brady, as they were choosing the candidates.

    I rang Liam — who said it was the manager’s decision — and emailed Ivan, who said it was Arsene and Liam deciding.

    Then Liam rang, to tell me I was overqualified, they wanted somebody younger who they could train up. I was not going to let this go by now, having been messed about so much.

    So I met Arsene yet again and this time he told me, “I see big things for you. You are a great coach and you will be the next manager of Arsenal.”

    But I said, “Arsene, Arsene, Arsene,” proud I did not raise my voice or lose my temper.

    “I have too much respect for you to fall out. It would have been better if you had just told me you didn’t want me.”

    “No, it is not like that,” he replied. “You have got the wrong end of it.”

    “Arsene, let’s forget it,” I said. “Have a wonderful season.”

    Then there was the time when ex-chairman Peter Hill-Wood questioned where all the people who gave time and expertise — and ran football clubs for free, out of love — had gone.

    I wrote to him. “I am in my 40s, I don’t need paying. I will advise about playing matters and the future, perhaps be Arsene’s long-term successor.”

    The board needed someone like me, I reckoned. I never got a reply. So that was four attempts to come back — one to get on to the board, one to become Arsene’s assistant, one to do the reserves, then even the offer of a freebie.

    But I still wasn’t done yet. My next one was partly tongue-in-cheek, to make a point.

    Arsenal were advertising for a coach to take the Under-14s. I thought “f*** it. I’m going for it.”

    I got a call from the HR department asking if I was serious, pointing out the modest salary of £15,000 a year and that it involved five nights a week in London and a Sunday game.

    I said that, on reflection, it wasn’t for me, though had I lived nearer I would certainly have thought about it. It was the Arsenal, after all. It was the way Arsene dealt with it all, rather than not getting a job, that saddened and annoyed me.

    He never liked confrontation. I recall a time when Ian Wright was getting in late for training most days. Arsene just made training later but the boys were fuming. We, as players, then told Wrighty to get his act together.

    But in Arsene’s later years, I couldn’t envisage any other player having the authority to challenge him like that, which worries me.

    In 2016, the European Under-17 Championships were held in Azerbaijan. I went and noticed Arsenal weren’t represented. I asked the chief scout if he’d like analyses.

    He emailed me back adding: ‘There’s a vacancy for an Under-18 coach in the Arsenal academy.”

    My relationship with Arsene had been warm for six months after my heart scare. He texted saying: “I admire your strength. Respect and love.” It prompted a bit of a text love-in. I texted him about the under-18 job and he just replied: “Good luck Tony.”

    The salary would be £45,000 gross. I would give it a month.

    Another club, this one a step up in the Chinese Super League, were interested. They were Chongqing Lifan, lower to mid-table.

    Had the Arsenal money been better, I might have had second thoughts. There were people who thought I was wrong. Perhaps the big job would come up, they said.

    It was not going to happen, though. It was made clear that the Under-18s was not preparation for bigger things, even if I was on the inside when Arsene left.

    Of course I wanted — still want — to come back as Arsenal boss, but I don’t think I was seen as management material by the club.
     
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  2. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting read and Adams makes some good points, even though it sounds a little bitter. There probably is some truth in Arsene not liking strong characters or people questioning him. I guess it's allowed him to manage unopposed for so long. Good for stability, but bad when you don't see the problems that need fixing.
     
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  3. Citizen Kane

    Citizen Kane Danny Rosebud

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39972064

    So...win,he stays, lose he leaves? Sounds unlikely at this stage. If the board intended to remove him/Wenger intended to stand down, surely that would've been announced by now?

    It's clear that the intention is to keep him on, and the board is pinning their hopes on an unlikely top 4 finish and a slightly less unlikely FAC win to placate a toxic fanbase.

    Bottom line is, you are being treated like mugs.
     
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  4. 667 - The Neighbour of the Beast

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    <applause>
    I have been saying this for years!

    Okay we can look at what Adams is saying and know that he's probably vying for a coaching job at Arsenal and he senses that the climate is right to have a couple of pops at Wenger, but I don't think they are cheap pops. Adams clearly has the best interests of the club at heart.

    That said I still think we need to tread very carefully and not be too hasty to get Wenger out the door.
     
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  5. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

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    'Hasty'? If he was sacked this evening it would have take over a decade to get this to happen. The slowest sacking known to mankind.
     
    #5
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  6. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    I think hasty in terms of having no successor which i think our hapless management don't have. They've lived off Wenger for so long that i don't think they have a clue how to move forward, which is worrying.
     
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  7. 667 - The Neighbour of the Beast

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    <ok>
    That's exactly what I meant!

    I will say it until I am blue in the face but the absolute worst mistake the club could make is to get rid of Wenger simply for the sake of appeasing the fans. I'd rather finish outside the top 4 this season than to be guaranteed staying outside top 4 for the next decade. Only if I have proof that the dressing room has turned against him will I join the boo-boys. Until then I will stick with Wenger as the best option being immediately available.
     
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  8. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    The problem we have here is we are blaming Wenger for everything when in reality it should be pitch issues only. The rest should be addressed to the Management and Board.
     
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  9. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I'm a clear Wenger out person but it's becoming apparent that the Management and the Board are at fault here. THEY are the ones who haven't been doing their jobs and THEY are the ones who gave Wenger far too much power which has led us to this point. The whole Wenger as a one man band has worked up until now, but their lack of contingency has hurt us moving forward. But dumping Wenger for the sake of dumping him without any real targets would be a mistake, even if i think keeping Wenger would be mistake too.

    They really have put us in a bad situation and our fury should be directed to them. It's a bit like the American elections, picking between two extremely undesirable candidates, with one slightly better than the other. In our case, Wenger is Hillary.
     
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  10. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

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    The board being ****e doesn't excuse Wenger for also being utterly ****e. Both deserve an equal share of retaliatory verbal ****e smeared over their faces.
     
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  11. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    Yes but abusing only Wenger won't change our situation, in fact it makes him even more stubborn to stick to it, as you're witnessing now. You think he gives two sh1ts what we or anyone else thinks? He has his own reality that he sticks to. Anything that conflicts with it he gets rid of or avoids. Hence why he's got timid yes men surrounding him.

    We're stuck with him for another season or two whether we like it or not. But my guess is it won't go further than a season because i don't have faith that our club will get the required players in the summer transfer window to improve us. If that happens then it won't be pretty.
     
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  12. enigma

    enigma Well-Known Member

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    It looks like Tony Adams can coach his way out of a paper bag judging by all his coaching success <doh>
     
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  13. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

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    It's not about expecting to make any change and of course nothing said on these fora will make a blind bit of difference. Neither will talking about what formation we should play, who we should sell and who we should buy. But we can still say what we think about those things.

    But if no-one ever did anything that they knew wouldn't result in something happening then not a lot would ever get done.

    Wenger is ****e. He needs to go. Hopefully enough fans make it toxic enough for him inside the stadium that he then realises he can't stay on. Everyone has a limit, even someone as arrogantly stubborn and useless as Wenger, and we need to push until we reach his because we're not there yet and the board are never going to fire him because they're also a rotting sack of ****e.
     
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  14. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

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    Say it as many times as you want, it's still bullshit.

    Sacking Wenger should not be for fan appeasement. It should be to save our club from an arrogant, useless, inept, decrepit moron from dragging us down.
     
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  15. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    This <applause>

    There's a reason that Adams isn't in any sort of coaching capacity at Arsenal. And that's because he's ****.

    He was a great player, captain and leader for us. But just because he was a good player, that doesn't make him a good coach, as his record demonstrates.
     
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  16. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed he's a dogturd manager, but to fair to him, he was assistant manager at Portsmouth when they had their best season ever. I wouldn't let him anyone near being manager, but I'd let him be a defensive coach in a heartbeat.
     
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  17. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    Adams just sounds bitter IMO
     
    #17
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  18. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    He does sound bitter but he makes some good points as well. Both are Arsenal legends and Adams was instrumental in most of Wengers success in the PL. If there ever was a player that Wenger desperately needed it's Tony Adams. But those kind of players didn't fit his philosophy and he's too stubborn to admit it. That's one of the reasons why we haven't won a PL for over 12 years.
     
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  19. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    You may be right, but I do have doubts. CBs these days have to be a lot more mobile, and they can't be kicking people around as much as they used to. It is a little ironic to accuse Wenger of being unwilling to change, and then saying he needs a player from his glory days.

    Either he needs to change from what worked in the past or he doesn't.

    I am coming round to the Wenger out line, not because I think it will do much good, but just because I'm sick of the moaning.
     
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  20. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    You know i was referring to his mental and leadership qualities and not his playing style. That's why i was saying that Wenger doesn't surround himself with players that are strong characters. John Terry is the modern equivalent and i can't imagine Wenger ever going for a player like that. But that isn't the only issue, it's Wenger's overall timidness when things don't go his way. He looks visibly nervous which doesn't translate well to the players. He also struggles to marshal the troops when things get tough, otherwise we wouldn't of had our usual dip, which effectively ended our PL campaign and subsequent drop from CL qualification.

    In my opinion we have the players but don't have the correct mental attitude to go with it. Until we sort that out, we won't win the PL.
     
    #20

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