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Most improved player?

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by lennypops, Oct 4, 2016.

  1. lennypops

    lennypops Well-Known Member

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    So I was looking at our team the other day and realized how many greatly-improved players we have. And in fact the entire first team plus a few regulars break down mostly into either a) been between very good and excellent since the minute we bought them (Toby, Alli, Dier, Verts, Lloris, Eriksen...) or b) improved tremendously since we bought them/they broke through into the first team.

    I've got a top four but first some notable absentees: Vorm: has improved a lot this season but in my mind it's more of a return to what we thought he was capable of before he moved. Dembele: sort of ditto in a way only this time it's more like he's improved into the player we always thought he sort of could be and that he's shown signs of. Davies: He was not that bad when we he first joined, tbh, has looked a solid option without making the spot his own but he's not just pushed Rose - he's also looking an all-round better player these days, it seems to me. But not seen any sort of amazing improvement to be fair since he joined. Solid progress and performances, let's say.

    So the top 4 would be:

    4) Kyle Walker. Now the only reason he's so low down the list is because he's always been pretty decent. But England regular (and arguably one of the best players at that) and club stalwart? Didn't really see that coming. So honest and hardworking and perfect for our system. One of our players of the season so far.

    3) Erik Lamela. Not that's he's better than Walker - he's not. But **** me he looked crap when he joined. But he's completely bought into the Poch system, he's become so much stronger both on and off the ball, he's even starting to be someone who I actually would trust with a penalty (oh well - it was bloody **** as it turned out but at least it shows you something that he wanted it). I genuinely think something might happen when he's on the ball around the area nowadays. Still needs to use his right foot a hell of a lot more. It's not *that* bad. But genuinely a totally different and more effective player than the flash-harry weakling kid whose tricks never came off and couldn't pass who turned up in 2013.

    2) Ooh. This is hard. It's gonna have to be Harry Kane. Who saw that coming? Jesus Christ - all those years of waiting for Dean Marney or Terry Dixon or Jon Obika or one of these other hot young things to do something and then this lad turns up who looked okay, nothing too special, "quietly competent" is how he looked to me. Might do alright as a professional. Not at all excited to have him on the bench during Europa games, that sort of thing.

    Holy. ****. He's now one of the best strikers in the league and probably Europe. Hasn't been at it this season but he's class - no doubt about it. We got ourselves the best youth product since Ledley. Easy. And I can't really imagine a youth product being better than Ledley. Maybe one with some knee cartilage might be an improvement.

    1) See Kane looked alright. But Danny Rose? I think I can quote myself from a few years ago saying "So he's a not-terribly effective left winger converted to a not-very-effective left back". Sure part of his improvement has been that the current system actually doesn't call for him to be an orthodox left-back or winger. And he fits that middle ground perfectly. But what a beast of a player he is now! How often does he win headers? You seen the size of him? Just full of energy, can use the ball well, doesn't mind a shot and I do now believe he can defend. He could easily be a LB in a trad 4-4-2 now, though he'd be wasted. Yes he used to make some big mistakes but even they seem to be fading from memory. Has he had any cock-ups at all this season? All in all I think he is the player, from our current squad, who I have been the most wrong about. Wrote him off a few years ago. Now I wouldn't want to swap him for anyone.
     
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  2. SpursDisciple

    SpursDisciple Booking: Mod abuse - overturned on appeal
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    Agree with these, but No1 is surely Dele Alli. A raw, league 1 player transformed into a World star at 19. Eric Dier has got to be worth a shout. Decent Centre Half into best English holding midfield player by a distance.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  3. lennypops

    lennypops Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah. I actually meant to make it a top 5 and include Dier! He'd sneak into the "improved" group purely because we bought a promising-looking CB who then was a very capable RB (best crosser of the ball in the team when at RB) and then a superb DM! So yeah - that's pretty tangible improvement. Maybe put him in 4th between Lamela and Walker.
     
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  4. lennypops

    lennypops Well-Known Member

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    And Alli's been class from day 1 so I never really considered him as one who has really improved dramatically.
     
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  5. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    Most improved for me is Danny. I was someone who shamefully wanted him gone a few years back (although in fairness he was dreadful back then, I just never saw his potential, unlike others on here who said he'd turn good - Totsfan being his biggest fan!) but now he's not just become the best LB in the league but he's got to be up there with some of the best in Europe, so consistent, highly reliable and gives 100% in every game.

    Second would be Walker. He burst onto the scene and won YPOTY but then I felt he really went down hill, performances were really bad and in general he looked lost, he even had Lennon in front of him who done a lot of tracking back and I still felt he was poor but now he looks as though he's fulfilling his undoubted potential. Probably the most complete athlete in the side, exceptionally quick, can defend well and his attacking play has improved massively over the past 18 months, he can actually cross a ball at a half decent level now. Like Rose, has to be one of the best full backs in Europe now.

    Kane is another and comes in a very close third, I did always feel he'd make the first team squad but I never imagined him going on to be one of Europe's top marksman and our club's poster boy. One of the most complete strikers you'll see, proud to call him one of our own.

    Dier's transition into DM was incredible, he impressed at CB and RB in his first season but he went to new standards when pushed a little forward. Struck up a great partnership with Dembele and has all the makings to be not just ours but England's future captain.

    Alli, to come from League 1 and take the Prem by storm in his first season shows the quality this lad possesses, genuinely believe that if he stays grounded (which seems so) he has the biggest future ahead of him above all current Spurs players. I see him as the next "big thing" in football, especially in terms of England players. Could well be the player England wanted Rooney to be, someone to really spearhead our country and give somewhat of an answer to Portugal & Ronaldo, Argentina & Messi, Sweden & Zlatan etc.

    To be honest any of those five could be the most improved and there's guys like Lamela and Dembele plus Jan when partnered with Toby who could all be in with a shout as well.
     
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  6. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    I wonder to what extent the undoubted improvement in the full backs come from having good defenders around them. When we had King, Gallas, a fit Kaboul and Dawson in the team, Kyle looked good. When it was Fazio, washed-up Kaboul, etc his performances really dipped.

    I always supported Danny Rose and saw that he could make it. However, I really doubted Harry Kane. I remember him coming on in our 2-1 win at OT under Tim Sherwood. He was so ineffective and easily nullified and looked anything but an athlete. He has transformed himself physically and that has allowed him to show his skills. For that I would vote for him.
     
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  7. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    Danny Rose.
    His starting level at LB was poor, so to get to where he is now is commendable.
     
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  8. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    I saw a fair bit of Kane in the 2012-13 U21 season. Everything he does now, he did then.
    Obika may have the been the faster and stronger of the two, but you could see
    Kane had the much wider range of tools that a forward needs.
    So he is still here while Obika is not.

    That said, I never imagined he would become the 20+ PL goals per season beast he is
    (at best I was hoping he would be a 10+ PL goals per season squad striker) .
     
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  9. No Kane No Gain

    No Kane No Gain Well-Known Member

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    I'd swap Lamela with Dier in the top 4 but keep everything else the same. Lamela has improved a lot but he's still inconsistent and only shows flashes of his best. Dier has gone from a decent centre back and right back to an outstanding holding midfielder.

    With Rose, it's not just the level he performs at but that he performs well regardless of how the rest of the team are doing. When the more attacking players are struggling to create, how often does Rose look like our best attacking threat? He tirelessly puts in the hard yards at both ends of the pitch and is extremely productive in doing it. I did always feel he was underrated by our fans but he's gone from a decent fullback to comfortably the best in the league and that's some achievement.
     
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  10. RobSpur

    RobSpur Well-Known Member

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    Obviously depends completely what period you're looking at,mbut if you can pick any period for any player, and compare it to what we've got now, I'd say somethi like :

    1. Dembele
    2. Walker
    3. Kane
    4. Sissoko
    5. Rose
    6. Son

    For me, a lot of the improvements are down to attitude. I'll give you two examples :

    Son - used to run about the pitch smiling and laughing about what went wrong. Now, completely serious.

    Walker - used to stand there pointing at team mates who he thinks shouldve made a different run. Now, absoloute total professional from the moment he steps on the pitch. Head down, focused, totally commited.
     
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  11. Spurm

    Spurm Well-Known Member

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    you just reminded me of his finger wagging fight vs City <laugh>
     
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  12. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    It may be that none of the players has actually got much better but they all look far better because we are now playing as a team with suitable tactics. I thought that was what Wenger had done to Arsenal in his early days too.
    In the commentary on Sunday Gary Neville was saying how much change Poch had made to the squad, which is certainly a fair comment. But the only new players in the starting eleven he usually selects are Alderweireld, Dier and Dele. If you had asked the question on here a couple of seasons back on how that team would fare I reckon most would have said mid-table at best.
     
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  13. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
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    Got to be Danny Rose for me...he is the Black Cafu mate.

    Love watching him play.

    Truth is I couldn't pick a top few. Honestly think everyone has moved up a few notches in quality since Poch arrived.

    Rose is a defender..but when he is in the team I know we will have fun and games. Walker on the other side and its fireworks. Absolutely love watching flying wing backs on top of their game. We got two.
     
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  14. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    I have to agree with PowerSpurs the fantastic improvement has been the team and so it should be, football is a team game. Mauricio Pochettino deserves the accolades. After he was at Spurs a few months I think it was apparent that we had found a good manager. His attention to detail was already obvious by then and the improved fitness levels were noticed by a number of our posters. Then with each transfer window he addressed the problems, giving priority to a leaky defence and a soft midfield. Many thought he had neglected our attack and this was the main complaint from fans. Then we started to win games or at least not to lose. We were lucky that Kane played injury free, but I believe Pochettino knew that he had reserves if necessary and with his methods, goals, were coming from all over the team in any case. The last few games of last season were of course a big disappointment, but on the other hand they were also a huge lesson to the whole club.

    It was almost as if our second place and potential first suddenly became apparent and the realisation caused a huge collective rush of blood. I don't think it will happen again. This season we have added depth to our squad and even more strength. Wanjama looks hugely better than the very good player I saw playing for Celtic. There is now a team factor, a Pochettino factor. It appears that Pochettino has managed to create a situation where any member of the squad can now seamlessly play in the 11. He has chosen his players for their abilities and then honed them into the new Spurs way. This is what Arthur Rowe did when his Spurs team introduced push and run to the English league and it also made his Spurs team, league champions.

    Exciting times.
     
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  15. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
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    Thats the one Spurf. Agree with all of that <ok>
     
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  16. lennypops

    lennypops Well-Known Member

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    Lol! Trust you to undermine the whole question and any assumption behind it! You def. have a point though - as TFTB says above a big part of the improvement of the FBs must be how solid everything around them is.

    I wouldn't go as far as saying that none of the players has improved though! But it's true that when the whole team is playing like a single unit it makes it easier for everyone to be effective, whether it's closing down and winning the ball or finding gaps and balls and movement going forward.

    Part of the genuis of what Poch has did with our defence last year was to find the exact right CB in Toby and move Dier to CB. With these two changes the whole defence looked totally different. Add to that the benefit of bringing in competition for Walker and Rose (not to mention the fact that Wimmer looks perfectly fine to step in) and now, finally, this season it feels like Vorm has "clicked" and may be a genuine threat to Lloris which is more great news.

    I think you could actually go through every player who was here when Poch arrived and say that they've improved. That, perhaps, is the best evidence of the benefits that Poch and his methods have brought the club. Each one of them can't help but look better players in this system that is being implemented so well. Of course Poch also has a handy eye for which bits of fat to cut off a squad too...
     
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  17. audrey.s.thackeray

    audrey.s.thackeray Well-Known Member

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    Lennypops said: "3) Erik Lamela. Not that's he's better than Walker - he's not. But **** me he looked crap when he joined. But he's completely bought into the Poch system, he's become so much stronger both on and off the ball, he's even starting to be someone who I actually would trust with a penalty (oh well - it was bloody **** as it turned out but at least it shows you something that he wanted it). I genuinely think something might happen when he's on the ball around the area nowadays. Still needs to use his right foot a hell of a lot more. It's not *that* bad. But genuinely a totally different and more effective player than the flash-harry weakling kid whose tricks never came off and couldn't pass who turned up in 2013."
    Sadly, I disagree here. I think he improved beyond recognition at one stage, but has now reverted to almost the same flamboyant, petulant, self-regarding player who arrived here. Such a disappointment. He seems intent on giving the ball away the whole time (even, as I've commented elsewhere, when he takes a penalty!). Occasional brilliant moments - eg the pass for Son's goal vs CSK) provide little compensation. I really wanted him to succeed, but I don't think he can be saved now.
     
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  18. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
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    Of course he can be saved. I find with Lamela that once the penny drops he gets his head down. A bit of a thicko....but as the games pass and the odd <doh> moment, he will become a pivotal player for us again...he's just getting his bearings in order.
     
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  19. RobSpur

    RobSpur Well-Known Member

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    Agree with Audrey on this one. Competition is intense now, and only excellence is required. Lamela has not shown it this season, and I don't see him holding down a regular place. Not in the starting x1 anyway. Too many options.
     
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  20. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
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    Yeah I agree with that but I don't think he is no good to us.
     
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