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Look on the bright side

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by Gjc21, Apr 18, 2017.

  1. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Be a great signing but I think that would be the problem.

    To be honest I have never understood why these lads like Gibbs, Wilshere, Sturridge don't head for warmer climates. I think it could help them and they have the technical ability to cope and improve abroad.
     
    #21
  2. Howe's about that then?

    Howe's about that then? Well-Known Member

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    Yep. If he was available then I'd welcome him. If it was at the expense of a more important signing then no.
    The injury thing isn't a huge issue either if we still keep Dummett
     
    #22
  3. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    Fabian Delph and James McCarthy were mentioned in January. The former has to be a possibility and probably not a bad signing. Diame out Delph in?

    If Palace will let him go then I'd have Townsend back. He did well while he was here and will make a massive difference to our ability to create.
     
    #23
  4. Gjc21

    Gjc21 New Member

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    Delph would be quality, wages could be an issue. Depends on whether any of those sorts of players (Delph, Wiltshire, etc.) would take a wage cut to play regularly - ambition vs money I suppose.
     
    #24
  5. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    I like the idea of Delph. My issue would be is where does he fit in? It would be him or Shelvey for me. You could play the two but I think any manager worth his salt playing the way Rafa likes to, has a holding midfielder. Its different if you play 343 or another formation. We pretty much know what Rafa wants to play and so then its about balance. I just think you'll end up with Shelvey picking up more work than you'd want him to. I'd prefer a holder to allow the other guy to play. The only time I think it works otherwise is with high energy like we had with Speed, Jenas, Dyer etc. Then you get away with it. If Shelvey is going to be a key player, we will need to go a different route because he shys away from graft at times.
     
    #25
  6. Charlie Dogscock

    Charlie Dogscock Well-Known Member

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    Delph can be moulded more into a defensive midfielder than Shelvey, he'd be good in that position I think. Bring Delph in as holding midfield, keep Hayden as a back up for that positon, and ditch Colback of course. Shelvey would then have more of a defined role and we wouldn't be asking him to carry the team as much as he does now.
     
    #26
  7. Gjc21

    Gjc21 New Member

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    Didn't Delph play there for Villa for a while? Pretty sure he was a DM initially. Would see him and Shelvey working well together, or in a three with, say, Hayden. Even better with Will Hughes.

    Get Richie and Townsend out wide and that's a decent premiership midfield.

    Now just a back 4, keeper and CF to go
     
    #27
  8. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Well I hope to hell we don't start this ****. If you want a holding midfielder to play with Shelvey, buy a holding midfielder. Don't buy a carbon copy of Shelvey and then hope he can become something else. Don't get me wrong it can work at times, Southgate and Carragher were both converted from either midfield or utility roles to centre back. I think it is easier to convert into a defender if I'm honest. Particularly from defensive midfield where you have the same economies of movement. However turning a box to box midfielder or ball playing midfielder into a holding midfielder is asking for trouble. You are going against their natural instinct. Its the old Gerrard/Lampard issue this. I don't like trying to ram square pegs into round holes. I'd just buy a round peg.
     
    #28
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  9. Charlie Dogscock

    Charlie Dogscock Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't really class Delph as a carbon copy of Shelvey, he's much more defensive, and has been used as a DM before and has performed well there, Shelvey on the other hand will never be defensive.
     
    #29
  10. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    I must have watched a different Delph. All the time I have seen him play at Villa he was always your archetypical box to box midfielder. Not quite the same as Shelvey I would agree, as Shelvey sees himself as a deep lying playmaker. Delph does get stuck in, of that there is no doubt. But actually sitting and protecting a back four is a completely different game altogether for me. His natural instinct is to close down the play. A holding midfielder only does that at the appropriate time. Hayden is often described as a holding midfielder but again I'm not sure I agree with this. A holding midfielders single most important role is to screen the box in defensive situations. Its quite an intuitive thing to be able to do. If you watch Kante, Makelele, Lucas, Wanyama, Cattermole (<laugh><laugh><laugh> sorry I couldn't help myself) - its a natural process for them. I could see a role for Delph replacing Shelvey. I think I'd prefer his all action style to be honest.

    The other issue nobody can get away from with Delph is that he has spent the majority of his career nursing serious injuries. He is 28 in November and has managed just 185 career games. To put that in perspective, Danny Drinkwater who didn't play a lot early in his career (18-22) and is 5 months his junior, has played something like 260 games. That's another couple of seasons! We need players who are going to play in the spine. So your holding midfielder, centre back, number 10 and striker need to be blue chip cast iron selections.

    For me there is so much wrong with thinking the solution is to convert a box to box midfielder who is injured all the time, into a holding midfield mainstay of your team. I like him but only as competition for Shelvey.
     
    #30
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  11. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    I think you can have both in the squad although I'd still be advocating a specialist DCM to be brought in. There will be injuries, suspensions and, of course, rotation. Not to mention that competition is good to keep players on their toes. We need someone in that position to replace Diame who I see as Shelvey's back up, but they've all played plenty under Rafa as he picks players for specific games and rotates to (try to) keep players fresh and manage injuries. We are going to need some strength in depth in the Premier League. A few weeks ago I thought we could maybe get away with with Diame for a season but I really don't think he's good enough to play in the EPL even as a bit part player.
     
    #31
  12. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Yes I thought he was a player we may have to get away with for a season. That looks pretty unpalatable now.
     
    #32
  13. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    We have been repeatedly linked with Andy Carroll pretty much since the day he left. I think he could be one we go for this summer to be honest and I don't think the price would make the eyes water too much. Again, though, he's one of these players who are a gamble in terms of his injury record. Would Rafa play to his strengths though?
     
    #33
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  14. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    I like Carroll but injury wise, being around newcastle and Rafa preferring a different type would make it unlikely for me.

    The likes of him, Gibbs, Delph are all positions we need but we have to be careful to not end up with a load of crocks in the physio room and also having positions filled by the wrong type of player for that position. It has to suit Rafa all told. He likes a quick striker, a holding midfielder, a 10. If imagine it will be a case of give me control to buy what i want or bye bye. Prob too long in the tooth to piss about
     
    #34
  15. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    How much money do we think we'll have to spend in the transfer window?

    I'm going to assume there will be very little cash reserves at the moment considering Ashley has had to pump £33m into the club's cash flow this season. Therefore....

    Zero in bank
    £9.5m from Thauvin sale
    £6m installment from Sissoko sale

    Sales:
    Hanley (£2m)
    Colback (£4m)
    Diame (£4m)
    Krul (£3m)
    Mitrovic or Gayle (£12m)
    De Jong or Perez (£4m)
    Any other outgoings will raise very little

    So that's about £35m. We are going need at least £25m to be donated by Mr Ashley and even then we will have to spend very wisely. He's not going to like hearing that is he?
     
    #35
  16. Heed

    Heed well known cheat

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    If Ashley wants to retain the services of Rafa, I suspect he'll have to dig a bit deeper.
    I can't see Rafa hanging around too long if it looks like a relegation battle.

    When you consider that the clubs finishing mid-table to the lower end will be receiving circa £100m - £110m this summer and the same again next, Ashley should be releasing serious money or we will struggle to compete.
    As to whether he's prepared to do that is the question.
     
    #36
  17. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    I think you may not see as many go as you think. I think we might spend somewhere between 40m-60m. These 100m pie in the sky desires will never happen. To be honest we could just as easy spend 30m and retain a fair bit of this squad. One thing I have learnt about Mike Ashley is - its a complete waste of time trying to 2nd guess the guy. No wonder he likes poker and the roulette so much. He is difficult to read and completely loose.
     
    #37
  18. leez

    leez Well-Known Member

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    what do yous make of that Aaron Mooy from huddesfield .. and Tammy Abraham on loan for starters think ciaran clark could do a good job as a holder midfield player
     
    #38
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  19. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Yes to the first two in terms of loans. No for Clark. We need to buy or loan a dedicated holding midfielder. I like M'Vila at Rubin. There are a few loans we can look at though. Liverpool allowed Markovic out on loan and may do again. Loftus-Cheek may be available for loan. You'd imagine Abrahams will be. I'd not be adverse to any of those or Mooy.
     
    #39
  20. leez

    leez Well-Known Member

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    aye need player allover me thinks defensive and attack minded ... ant see any harm in picking up some decent players outthe championship to blend in 100 % ers lol
     
    #40

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