London attacks

Plus, Liam's comments have made it main steam news anyway...

 

Or...such a message is completely and utterly meaningless to those who seek to destroy and divide.

The reality is that concert was a poor effort at propaganda,a good boost to the victims families financially and overall pretty meaningless.

The truth is a sole lunatic managed to get to lybia, train and come back to commit mass murder while every hour bombs and mortars dropp all over Syria and Iraq killing thousands and it is images daily from that weeping sore of a conflict that are being used as propaganda to make more sad pathetic losers become murderers.

The only solution to me is civilisation agrees a post conflict resolution to Syria and a un force destroys Isis utterly.


What is happening is western bombers blow away people and Kurdish forces (tomorrow's problem btw) are armed to fight on the wests side whole russia enables al asad to kill on their behalf.

AND all because no leader has the balls to say yeah Iraq was wrong but this ain't a made up war is it and get yanks rolling

 

I love me a rolling yank, preferably down a bowling alley

 

I wouldn't mind them touring the old songs but have no interest in new material from them, I had no interest in the last few albums by then anyway.

 

Yeah they have not run out of money yet so they have not overcome their natural arseholeness yet.

Greed heals all wounds in music.

 

I'm a little annoyed now



i read this on bbc http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40167432

Dhar later skipped bail for Syria.

Once there, he appeared in a black mask in an IS execution video.

In the documentary, Butt appears in one of the key scenes with others from the group angrily arguing with a police officer who said there had been a call that the men had displayed an "ISIS-looking flag" in one of London's parks.


and again


"The police turned up and Anjem, Khuram Butt and two other men were escorted away. I am not surprised that Khuram Butt carried out the terrorist attack and there are serious questions for the authorities."

this guy who did the killing is a very clear. red flag after red flag... again.

and again

In Barking, east London, one resident, Erica Gasparri, told the BBC she had her own concerns that Butt and three other men had been attempting to radicalise her children.

She told our team that she went to Barking police station about a year to a year-and-a-half ago with photos of the men and explained her concerns.

Another man - who did not want to be identified - told the BBC that Butt had expressed his disgust at the scantily clad way some women were dressed during his time at Transport for London.

That man was so worried by his extreme views - including apparent support for an American online advocate for the Syrian jihad - that he called the anti-terror hotline.

Butt also appears to have taken part in a confrontational ALM network campaign in 2015 to intimidate Muslims into not voting, on the basis that it was forbidden by God.

When he interrupted an Imam at the local Jabir Bin Zayid Mosque after the subject of voting was raised, he was asked to leave.



the issue is the current laws say they can do this and no issue.

What do you do? formal arrest and zero tolerance for these types antics and once arrested you act differently?

this list is not much different to most of these loons. how many more are actively known like this who could and should be arrested but what do you do when you do arrest?

Guantanamo?

deport?

tag and release?

 

Should just be detained and re-education camp? I dunno. Tough one as you would hope they would change but the red flags are there and rather than turning to a life of serial crime which is what most people would do, we have these indoctrinated people who would go about murdering everyone and causing terror with scant regard for their own life.

Maybe just send them into ISIS territories?

 

I think the evidence is they are mostly already petty crims and have been in or out of whatever form of jail and for whatever reason think this is the way to go.

its clear people are reporting but this will make them far less inclined to do so IMO. At some point if someone assesses and prioritises a person on a threat list then theres some evidence.

It seems to me you have to make some public activities completely illegal with ajil terms or visa revokation etc.

If we have our way there won't be an isis to send them to. They are the ones isis have managed to get into cos right now anyone who went to the caliphate thinking to build a utopia is already dead or running. this lot are inspired by guys in offices or whatever across the arab world producing rubbish and propaganda.

If a guy is lybian send him to lybia. if Egyptian to Egypt etc etc. i there's family do you deport. This is why a serious debate is needed and a fair one. new laws are required. simple as.. do you need a 1000 dead before you do or is the 100 odd so far enough like?

 

I think my point is, sending them to jail isn't going to do much. 10 years? 15 years? are you hoping they change inside? When a guy who has a family and is still willing to die for the cause i'm sure Jail time alongside his buddies are going to make a difference. How old are these guys? 30? At 30 i would hope they would have matured. I can see maybe people falling for it when they are young 20's but these are fully grown men who if they haven't learnt now are only going to be more hateful if they get incarcerated in my opinion.

I would send them away to where they are from and if they are british, i'd still send them away. Do we prioritise their lives and their families lives over potential lives.

I'm not saying we should do it to everyone but as you say some of these boys have some serious red flags.

 

Yeah.... It's impossible to say.

Is it a deterrent to next lot or not?

Is it stopping an attack... I dunno.


Is there a solution to their original grievance.. I dunno

What I do know is if there was capability to get 3 machine guns with enough ammo into the hands of 3 guys and the police response was 8mins the death toll would be at least 10x.

It's amazing it's not happened.

2 guys who attacked magazine in France... showed scary training and only killed 10 inside.

Think of nice with a truck

Or Paris in the theatre.

Imagine the absolute worst case situation in a sports ground etc or some place where all of this is combined......right now it's actually low grade and still horrendeous

 

There is no doubt that the police and the intelligence services are coming quite badly out of the 2 recent incidents. The Westminster attack many people thought was not preventable by the surveillance people as the attacker seemed to have worked on his own. But the last two incidents seemed to have been carried out by people who should have been well, within the radar. What else did they need as the signs were quite clear: known radicals, several reports, and more.

It is high time that these authorities come under scrutiny. The public are starting to lose confidence in them. Why ask the public to keep their eyes open and report any suspicious actions when they are SO clearly ignored?

For me the last two attacks should have been prevented.

 

At minimum we should know what stopped them being prevented and immediately change it, even if it's laws

 

Charged with what?
In our society we don't lock people up for what they say, think or believe. They have to break the law/commit a crime for that to happen so, we either start locking people up/deporting them because we don't like their views or we keep track of them as best we can and hope we stop them acting.
Personally I would lock them up/deport them but I have been called racist/intolerant for that view by some.

 

He we just shoot them for looking like a dodgy ****

 

It's just diabolical what is coming out, working for tfl ffs!!! Imagine what could come of that.

Seems there is more harassment for missed ****ing car park tickets in this ridiculous society.

Our laws are simply there to collect money, **** everything else

 

Dunno what to. Thats why we elect people.

In germany its an offense to fly a nazi flag for example. If we all agree as a majority no burkas like france did and ukip wants thats another example.

Someone wants to shout death to infidels may thats a plane trip one way to where ever. I dont know.

Its like this... define tolerance...

A) do i tolerate being robbed cos the perpetrator needs cash.. no.

B) do i tolerate how you chose to live even if it means you dress up funny. Yeah.

C) do i tolerate someone shoutijng at a black person or a muslim. No.

D) do i tolerate a muslim standing outside a mosque shouting kill all infidels? Apparently so oddly.

So we need to understand that tolerance imo is more or less live and let live not be a door mat. If theres no giving back when you give these few a safe place to luve and they bring terror then we cannot play tbe tolerance game.

Thats my opinion. The barber i go to has an algerian dude. All he wanted to do was open his house to poor syrian refugees cos thats what his religion taught. How somone can corrupt it so far that killing kids is good is sad but its not his religions fault. Its the individual using it to their ends.

 

You are becoming quite yankified.

 

I think that most would agree on that point.
The problem with radicals is that speech and thoughts can not be used as a legal cause for detention, if we wish to make it so then the law has to be very carefully defined and locked.
Without this we could find it being extended/used with lesser reasons like not liking the government of the time etc. It's a very hard situation for a country that prides itself on the freedoms afforded it's population and, in the wrong hands in future times could easily lead to a dictatorship.
Me, I would have a gitmo but form an independent panel to constantly check the reasons for individual detentions.

 

Shoot to kill #****em

 

Nope, just shoot their bollocks off then keep them locked up for the rest of their lives so they can think about those virgins they will be getting (they believe any parts missing in life will also be missing in heaven hence the no organ donor's)