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Off Topic Impact of Brexit on Football

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by Davylad, Mar 26, 2016.

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  1. NORKIE

    NORKIE Well-Known Member

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    Hi bors, and JKC in particular. The German people are in the same position we were in when our politicians signed us up to the EU. Their politicians have committed them to an influx of migrants without consulting the population.
    Their attitude to migrants is changing after their womenfolk have been molested by gangs of migrants, they are even making railway carriages women only to safeguard them.

    That is their problem. But what happens when these migrants become EU citizens and have the right to settle anywhere in the EU. Cameron himself decided to take in 3000 immigrants initially, that figure has now risen to 20,000. His decision, he didn't consult the British people.

    You have read the opinion of those wishing to leave the EU. Here is your opportunity to put forward DOZENS of reasons to change our minds.
     
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  2. JKCanary

    JKCanary Guest

    Oroight Norkie?

    To be honest, I'm not 100% in or out. I'm still somewhat on the fence, although probably leaning slightly more towards 'remain'. Like I say though, I'm still reading and considering pretty much on a weekly basis. Hopefully I'll have made my mind up come the time.

    As for reasoning of the 'Remain' campaign, here are some in general:
    • Brexit is arguably generally riskier, whereas Remain is more 'concrete' in that we'd know far more of what we'd be getting. Not to mention what a messy process Brexit could be. I'm not convinced EU members would be too willing to give us easy access to the free market if we left. If we stay, we can negotiate and try and influence deals from within. If we leave, we have to play by their rules no matter what.
    • The US trade reps have suggested the UK would face tariff barriers from themselves, China, India, and Brazil. There might not be too much room to mitigate against any potential isolation from the European free market. American and Asian companies build factories in Britain precisely because we have direct access to the European single market. When we currently negotiate with the US or Asian countries we do so as part of the world's biggest trade bloc. Without EU membership, we wouldn't have that protection and clout. Our individual economy is small fry when compared to the US, China, and even Japan.
    • The Confederation of British Industry overwhelmingly supports Britain to stay in the EU. About 80% of members want to remain (only 10% want to leave). 75% think Brexit will have a negative impact on foreign investment to the UK.
    • The UK's annual contribution to the EU, (after taking account of money transferred back to the UK), is around £8bn (only about half a per cent of our GDP).
    • It isn't really known exactly how many jobs could be affected by Brexit. It's regularly estimated that around 3.5 million British jobs are directly linked to British membership of the EU’s single market (roughly 1 in 10 jobs).
    • Our own Field Marshall says the EU is massively beneficial for national security. More easily-shared intelligence regarding terrorism is something that has to be considered in this regard.
    • The EU is instrumental in protecting consumer rights.
    • Without EU legislation, the UK's natural environment would very likely suffer.
    • EU legislation helps to protect against many of the negative aspects of rampant multinational corporatism.
    • The UK is the 2nd largest beneficiary of EU research funds. We'd need to offset this income for our universities in the event of Brexit.
    • Freedom to move, work and study throughout the EU for UK citizens would be a thing of the past with Brexit.
    • What happens to the 1.5 million Brits living and working abroad in EU countries if Brexit goes ahead?
    • In the event of Brexit, Scotland would leave the UK. I have no doubt about that.
    • For what it's worth: Putin wants us to leave. Basically all of Europe along with Obama wants us to stay.

    I hope you're happy, I just wrote that instead of going to bed! :D
     
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  3. KIO

    KIO Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but can you think of any good reasons to stay in JK? ;)
     
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  4. KIO

    KIO Well-Known Member

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    A bit of a generalisation there JK, we have family who live in Bradford and I would suggest that you knock on their door to ask their view. Over the years they have seen their City descend into a place where there are 'no go' areas even in broad daylight. There are many second, even third and fourth generation migrants who do not wish to integrate, with many not speaking a word of English.
    If I were to move abroad I would do so with every intention of accepting that country's way of life and culture, not to try and change it to suit my own agenda.
    I can assure you that I have no issue with controlled immigration and as has been said many times before, immigration can indeed benefit any nation. My daughter is engaged to be married to a lad of mixed race, he comes from a hard working family who practice their own Christian faith which is different to ours but never once have they sought to change my daughter's beliefs and are happy that their son is to marry such a lovely girl. For that matter I'm also pleased that she has chosen him as her life partner.
    I don't know you from Adam mate but despite your socialist rants I imagine you live in your own nice house with a nice family, in a nice area and no doubt have a couple of nice cars in the driveway. I may be wrong but then you are also wrong if you truly believe in your opening gambit. Twitter34f1b17.jpg
     
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  5. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    Agreed that it often doesn't, where it thinks it has a mandate. But given, as I mentioned, that France and Austria have each promised their populations a referendum on Turkey's membership (and other EU countries may follow suit), here public opinion is essential.
     
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  6. THURNBY YELLOW

    THURNBY YELLOW Well-Known Member

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    As another undecided I think you have just about persuaded me JK! <laugh>
     
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  7. Cruyff's Turn.

    Cruyff's Turn. Active Member

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    I have caught a fair amount off stick on here before due to my anti Islamic stance. Perhaps somewhat unusually my critique comes from the libertarian wing. My view is that females have an absolute right to equality in every respect. Islam seems unable or unwilling to accept that. We now have The Labour Party of all people preventing females from becoming councillors in areas where heavy male Islamic influence holds sway.

    In Germany female only railway carriages are being re introduced to prevent sexual assaults. This attitude, along with discrimination against homosexuals isn't acceptable to me. I would be interested to hear how this squares with the claim made by JK about the wider acceptance of diversity in areas with large immigrant populations. I am happy to see immigration, but only when those people accept our socially liberal culture in totality. I can see no indication of that happening and as such I will hold my nose and vote "out".
     
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  8. KIO

    KIO Well-Known Member

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    Nail, hit, head <applause>
     
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  9. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I don't want to get into a political argument, lets face it the introduction of politics to this forum has been quiet destructive.

    You could argue that the method used to kill animals for halal meat is 'un British' and therefore the fact that we allow it demonstrates that we are willing to let cultural sensitivities overall our natural feelings.
     
    #49
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  10. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    The point about KFC and American style fast food in general not being British is a fair one, although whether the introduction of American style food is desirable or not is debateable. If we didn't have American style fast food outlets we would probably have more British style fast food such as fish & chips. At least more local fish & chip shops would put more tax into the treasury than exporting the money offshore to support other countries.
     
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  11. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    Germany is one of the few countries in Europe which would have a declining population if it were not for immigration. Also they are a much larger country geographically so argueable have more space for additional people without significantly reducing their green areas in order cater for new housing.
     
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  12. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    Yes the industry not just KFC should be penalised for the negative effects it has through taxation. Clearly people to a certain extent should have the right to eat what they want, but they should pay the true price of that decision. Not get really cheap food that damages their health and then expect someone else i.e. the tax payer to pick up the cost of their bad decisions.

    Bloody hell 4 posts on this subject, I must stop.
     
    #52
  13. NORKIE

    NORKIE Well-Known Member

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    Hi JKC bor, sorry for depriving you of your sleep. I noticed from your responses that you replied to the rather emotional opinions put forward eg Kentucky Fried chicken and halai. This subject is about the Referendum, not cultural issues.

    I'll put forward replies to your observations in due time but not today. Today is when we are all united in one objective, our fate as a football club. Sorry if this is inconvenient but today City comes first.
     
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  14. JKCanary

    JKCanary Guest

    Hear, hear.

    To defend myself a bit though, I merely responded to the halal thing because I found it ridiculous that it was brought up in the first place. I thought I'd made that clear.
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2016
  15. JKCanary

    JKCanary Guest

    Japan also has segregated carriages even though it has one of the most homogeneous populations in the world.

    The segregated carriages approach is often brought up as a suggestion in several countries of differing homogeneity. I believe it has been mooted in the UK a few times with varying levels of support.

    Correlation does not always equal causation, as we know.
     
    #55
  16. Cruyff's Turn.

    Cruyff's Turn. Active Member

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    That doesn't even begin to address the core of my argument though does it? Presumably Japan didn't reintroduce them, they just never went away. No, and this is the point that people on the radical left continually fail to answer, Britain is continually making concessions, halal meat is another and I object strongly to that too on animal welfare grounds. If black,brown, yellow or pink people want to come to Britain it's fine with me but what they cannot do or be allowed to do us change the liberal culture of the hosts.
     
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  17. NORKIE

    NORKIE Well-Known Member

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    JKC bor, no need to defend your opinion. I am more concerned with our lack of leadership in the EU. Cameron set out to achieve his changes and came back with practically nothing. He only got those concessions because the EU leadership wants us to remain in the EU. There is no guarantee we will retain those concessions if we remain. They are still subject to ratification after our Referendum.

    I will take time to reply to your first point but only your first point because this could take a bit of time
    .
    "Brexit is arguably generally riskier, whereas Remain is more 'concrete' in that we'd know far more of what we'd be getting. Not to mention what a messy process Brexit could be. I'm not convinced EU members would be too willing to give us easy access to the free market if we left. If we stay, we can negotiate and try and influence deals from within. If we leave, we have to play by their rules no matter what."

    Whether we remain or leave has a risk, It was a step in the dark when we joined. One of the risks of staying in is the pound. Brussels could say that all EU members must adopt the euro and become fully integrated in the EU. That was one of the items Cameron went to Brussels to protect, the British pound. It is no secret the EU want to establish Frankfurt as the financial capital of Europe thus demoting London. (Boris doesn't want that).
    Your choice of word "messy" doesn't that apply to the mess the EU is in over its migrant policy, its euro policy allowing countries like Greece and Italy in the Eurozone even though they didn't qualify on financial grounds. It took the British to change their CAP policy when we joined, their wine and butter mountains. Another mess we cleared up for them.
    Free market. That implies a freedom to negotiate terms of trade. At the moment we are denied that freedom because we have to abide by the dictats given us by Brussels. We as a trading nation are better placed than all of the EU except Germany so why should we be dictated by countries that do not possess our riches. They need our market as much as we need theirs, that is mutual.
    Your words "try and influence deals.....play by their rules." The emphasis is on "try" as regards play by their rules, being out of the EU will give us the opportunity to play by our rules.
    Easy access to markets works both ways. They impose a tariff we do the same so what is the point of that, we both suffer. You find a solution that is acceptable both parties, that is something the British have always been good at.
     
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  18. JKCanary

    JKCanary Guest

    Grüße Freunde!

    Und jetzt? A friendly broadcast from ourGerman cousins and allies!




    please log in to view this image
     
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  19. Cruyff's Turn.

    Cruyff's Turn. Active Member

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    Go show that to the poor old Bubbles.
     
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  20. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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    Just had my Conservative party EU referendum glossy, 16 page brochure advocating staying in the union on June 23rd through the door.
    I hope they make further cut-backs on elderly and disabled benefits to pay for the bloody thing, can't expect the 'poor' Conservatives to fund such a work of ***** art from their own coffers! <whistle> <grr>

    {****** substitute expletive of your own choice - as many as you want, feel free :( }
     
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