Hillsborough; 28yrs on...

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by luvgonzo, Apr 25, 2016.

  1. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Walking the Cow

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    Nearing the end of a very long journey now.

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/hillsborough-coroner-tells-jury-accept-11237055
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-36127689


    Jurors have been told they can return a majority decision on whether the 96 victims of the Hillsborough disaster were unlawfully killed.
    The jury of six women and three men have been deliberating since 6 April after hearing evidence for two years.
    They must agree with a majority of seven whether supporters were unlawfully killed in 1989 as part of a 14-section questionnaire.
    The jury has reached unanimous conclusions for 13 of the questions.

    The coroner Sir John Goldring said he would accept a majority decision at the hearing in Warrington, Cheshire.
    Question six asks whether the 96 were unlawfully killed.
    To answer yes to that question, jurors must be "sure" that Ch Supt David Duckenfield, who was in overall command of the police operation, was "responsible for the manslaughter by gross negligence" of those who died.
    When jurors reach their decision, it is understood the court will adjourn until the following day when the conclusions will be delivered.
    Ninety-six fans died as a result of a crush on the terraces occupied by Liverpool supporters attending the FA Cup semi-final against Nottingham Forest on 15 April 1989.
    Four steps to unlawful killing conclusion
    The coroner has laid out four steps jurors must consider when answering question six. Only if they are sure of each, can they conclude the 96 were unlawfully killed. They are:
    • Firstly, that Ch Supt David Duckenfield owed a duty of care to the 96 who died
    • Secondly, that he was in breach of that duty of care
    • Thirdly, that the breach of Mr Duckenfield's duty of care caused the deaths
    • Finally, the jury must be sure the breach which caused the deaths amounted to "gross negligence"
    For the final point to be proved, the jury has to be sure the match commander's breach in his duty of care was so bad it amounted to a criminal act or omission.
    Also that a "reasonably competent and careful" match commander in his position would have foreseen a "serious and obvious risk of death" to the supporters.
    Jurors have made their decision about whether fans' behaviour added to a dangerous situation outside the stadium in Sheffield.
    They have also made conclusions about whether police "errors or omissions" caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the match and the crush on the terraces.
    Based on the evidence, the jury has also decided if police and ambulance service responses to the crushing "contributed to the loss of lives".
    Sir John began his summing up on 25 January and spoke to the jury for 26 days in total.
    The hearings are the longest running inquests in British legal history.

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/hillsborough-coroner-tells-jury-accept-11237055
     
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  2. FSG's Last Stand

    FSG's Last Stand Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's been a long hard road for the families, very near the road's end now.<ok>

    JFT96
     
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  3. Red Hadron Collider

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    We continue to live in the hope of final justice <ok> Believe!
     
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  4. moreinjuredthanowen

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  5. moreinjuredthanowen

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  6. There Will Be Cookie

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    The jury has reached a verdict on all the questions now. The decisions will be returned at 11am tomorrow
     
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  7. FSG's Last Stand

    FSG's Last Stand Well-Known Member

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    Can't help but feel that even after all these years and that despite of all the lies and deceit by the police and the establishment during that time as to what happened on the day will see an equal share of the responsibility shared between SYP and our supporters in the jury's verdict.

    My cynicism will hopefully be proved wrong tomorrow.
     
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  8. moreinjuredthanowen

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    I dunno.

    I think all thats gone before in the past couple of years would seem to indicate that at the very least "tragic accident" will be the worst outcome we can expect no?

    I can see them letting of the police if they've had to call for a split jury decision.
     
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  9. There Will Be Cookie

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    Same man. The cynical or maybe just realistic part of me is thinking they will find a way to say that it was partly down to 'circumstances at the time' and tragic and very particular coincidences so they don't have to pin it entirely on the authorities and establishment. Let's see
     
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  10. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Walking the Cow

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    Yeah from what I've read there are hints of this as an outcome. I feel that there will be a lot swept under the carpet and admissions of what went wrong is all we will get.
     
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  11. Red Hadron Collider

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    The ****ers will get what's coming <ok> It couldn't go any other way after some of the admissions.
     
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  12. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Walking the Cow

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    Hope you are right.
     
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  13. Red Hadron Collider

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    So do I mate <ok>
     
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  14. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Boom!
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    I agree with Page. It won't be 100% as we'd like. The jury wouldn't have taken so long to make a decision otherwise.
     
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  15. moreinjuredthanowen

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    The one that not unanimous is the really important one for many.

    It's asking them to finger the main man for the crime. Even if they say oh 7-2 on he's culpable there's guys who'll doubt it.

    His own testimony threw himself on the mercy of the jury saying it was awful and such and ignoring 25 years of cover up.

    If a couple swallowed that ****... well...it does happen with some doesn't it. The swallow anything a guy in uniform says.
     
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  16. donga darko

    donga darko Free Suarez

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    Whatever the decision we just have to accept it now, though that will be harder for the families. There's nowhere else for the justice system to go. Be like blaming the passengers on the Titanic that there wasn't enough lifeboats for them if they blame the fans in my opinion, but I'm not unbiased and recognise that I can't be.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 26, 2016
  17. FSG's Last Stand

    FSG's Last Stand Well-Known Member

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    I've just read an Echo column regarding the inquests called "Who Admitted What", SWFC(safety certificate violation), Ambulance Service(staff at the match never carried out their duties professionally), SYP(never used the agreed disaster codeword that could have saved lives, manipulating police evidence to put the blame onto Liverpool supporters for the disaster and most damning of all match commander Duckenfield admitting he lied to the FA and the press about supporters breaking down the gate, he agreed with the coroner that he was entirely and directly responsible for the deaths and injuries because he ordered the gate to be opened)

    Based on those admitted facts alone it should have been an easy verdict to reach on each of the questions the jury were asked to answer including the " unlawful killing" question that they couldn't(at first)agree unanimously on.
    If the verdict is not entirely guilty against all of those who admitted responsibility or admitted lying then something needs doing about the whole tradition of coroner's inquest jury's dealing with cases of this magnitude because as you say today's verdict is the end of the line for the families and the system has reached its limit when the verdicts are read today

    I admit to an obvious bias in the matter but the cold hard facts are there, those smug ****ers have knowingly let hundreds of people lose 27 years of a normal life trying to seek justice for loved ones whilst they the guilty just carried on with life like the 96 and their families didn't matter and enjoyed a normal life and all that goes with it.
     
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  18. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Walking the Cow

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    Many of the Hillsborough families and friends who campaigned for new inquests into the 96 deaths are not here to see the new verdicts announced.
    The conclusion of the second inquests has come just over 27 years after the disaster at the FA Cup semi-final.
    On the road to the new inquests and during the court case relatives and campaigners have passed away, before finding out the new verdicts.
    Margaret Aspinall, chairman of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, told the ECHO: “People in the families died tormented.
    “They would have loved to have been with us today to see what’s going on, They died tormented, not even seeing the truth.”
    She added: “They’re the ones we carry on for. So many good families fought for so long and are now gone. We have got to do this for them.”
    We remember just some of those who died without seeing justice done.

    please log in to view this image

    Anne Williams with a picture of her son Kevin, who was killed at Hillsborough when he was 15
    Formby mum Anne fought for years to get new inquests for her 15-year-old son Kevin and the other 95 victims.
    She died days after the 24th anniversary in 2013 - having lived to see the publication of the Hillsborough Independent Panel (HIP) report and the original inquests quashed.
    Anne was part of a group of six bereaved families who challenged the accidental death verdicts via judicial review in 1993.

    please log in to view this image


    The families of Hillsborough victims Kevin Williams, Michael Kelly, Ian Glover, Peter Tootle, Paul Carlile and Richard Jones - set off from Lime Street for the judicial review in London in 1993
    She went on to submit two more appeals, containing her growing files of evidence, to the Attorney General to request a new inquest for Kevin.
    She even took his case to the European Court of Human Rights, where it was rejected in 2009 for being ‘out of time’.
    Anne was diagnosed with terminal cancer the month after the HIP report was published, but was at the high court to see the inquest verdicts quashed.

    After her death the then Bishop of Liverpool James Jones said: “She will go down in history as one of the key people who brought to light the truth of the Hillsborough tragedy.”
     
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  19. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Walking the Cow

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  20. Red Hadron Collider

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    The woman I know who's on the jury popped into the Cheese last night to drop her sister's birthday card off (she works behind the bar). She looked very tired. I said I hoped they'd done the right thing.
     
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