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Have saints gone into limbo awaiting take over at end of season?

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by Beddy, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    It never occured to me for one minute that we would reach a point where we would be competing with Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool on a level playing field. The more you stop and consider that, the more absurd it appears. Doesn't mean we can't, from time to time, finish above any or even all of them, but we will always be underdogs when we play those clubs, always.
     
    #141
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  2. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    If we suddenly get Man City style investment and leap to that next level (ignoring for now financial rules), then we'll be competing with those teams. (I'm talking top, top investment including bussing in thousands of extra noisy fans into a 70,000 seater stadium).

    Until then, we are Southampton FC and what we have and are currently achieving is excellent. It should be admired, especially by our own fans, not ridiculed or picked at.
     
    #142
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  3. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    I would argue that even if we got Man City (or Chelsea) levels of investment, we would not be able to regularly fill a 70,000 seater stadium. Geography dictates otherwise. The clubs that are capable of getting those sort of gates on a regular basis are exclusively located in either London or Manchester/Liverpool. Actually Newcastle may be the one exception to that, but it doesn't seem to have done them much good.

    Although well done Fats for reminding me that as soon as our current form turns around, the conversation will shift from "this will probably be my last season as a fan" to "how many more tiers can we build at St Mary's?" <laugh>
     
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  4. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    You must have missed my "bussing noisy fans in" comment. I nrealy put "flying noisy fans in from whichever country our new owners come from"
    I was taking the piss with that which is why I chose a number bigger than Spuds or Arsenal too

    :)
     
    #144
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  5. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

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    snakes and ladders.jpg
    This is called snakes and ladders and we seem always to fall on the snakes head after having just reached a few squares short of finishing. Please note that in this household square 27 is known as the Saints very own square and reserved exclusively for them.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  6. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

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    Those snakes look nice and friendly. Is it the PC version that won't frighten kids? :)
     
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  7. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

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    We play this game using old subbuteo players. I insist on having the saints player and therefore I am destined to always land on square 27.
     
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  8. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

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    I should point out that Chelsea's gates are not that much bigger than ours. If they can do it, why not us?
    Ok I accept that is a pipe dream and they like all teams have had bumpy seasons.
    If we genuinely believe ourselves to be a top 6/7 side we surely have to try and maintain at least that stance and act the part. We used to be able to keep our best players even while we were struggling to stay in the top division although granted perhaps they may not have been the very top level players.
    Although we managed to bring a few top notchers in to give us a couple of good seasons, the likes of Kevin Keegan to name but a few.
    That is definitely our weakness we don't have any top notch players like them to help us keep up or become a force to reckoned with.
    We have been led to believe in recent plans, by the board, about becoming regular visitors to the European league. To do that you have to have a reasonably strong squad. Having to constantly replace players, is never going to ever strengthen the chances of doing that.
    The boards thinking of longer contracts maybe one way of achieving that, we will see if that works during the summer. Maybe bringing in some older top notch players. The Defoe type players perhaps who at best maybe can only give us 2/3 years.
    For the record I may be a bit down at the moment but I have never intimated I wouldn't continue to support Saints even remotely. I am just letting off a bit of steam. There is a few of us that over the years sadly have heard similar Rhetoric from the board loads of times before. This board maybe using different words but the meanings the same. I suppose its their job but for me they need to change the record and be a bit more positive and to put their hands into the bankers pockets. Either way I remain a Saints fan even if I am not a fan of the board!!
     
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  9. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

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    We have been fortunate for years in having good players and managers, but there is always a chance of having a year when things aren't quite in place. None of our players are poor, but the strokes of genius aren't there. It's not just us....happens to other sides as well. The secret is to do enough to ride it out. I think that is the position we are in. Far too soon to talk of decline...blips happen. A good summer and this will all be forgotten. This must be doing the board's head in....how long before they earn our trust. As there is nothing I can do it about it, I prefer to try and relax and ride it out. On the other hand, the players and manager should be doing the exact opposite.o_O
     
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  10. St. Luigi Scrosoppi

    St. Luigi Scrosoppi Well-Known Member

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    To grow a business takes time unless you have a unique product which Saints do not have. They operate in a highly competitive market and it will take time. They need to grow their support base in terms of people who attend matches and people who buy their merchandise. They need to get the maximum value possible for sponsorship. We also need to have a bigger stadium. Added to that we need a change of culture within the club. We must stop being little old family friendly Saints who are selling club who will let any of their players go for a half decent price. They must change the way the club is seen by others. Cortese was very successful in achieving that but we have regressed. It is all very well getting great publicity for the Academy and the way we recruit and train young players but as yet we have to see a return on that by players playing in the first team. The ones we have at the moment haven't quite reached the level we need and those that have have long gone to other clubs. Culture change is the over riding issue within the club, with the fans and within the community. I cannot seen any of these things being achieved by our current regime as we have reverted to that nice little middle of the road club we used to be. The ambition has gone.
     
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  11. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

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    I don't accept anything has changed. Ambitions are massive and obvious when you are in the lower leagues...promotion, promotion, promotion. Once in the EPL, the ambition is to stay in (in the 1st season while you evaluate the situation) and then to do well. Progress is not always linear....if you get as high as 6th, there are 5 places above you and 14 behind...but no guarantee that you won't see-saw because it doesn't just depend on you, but also depends on the other teams. There is no denying that we aren't as exciting as we were, but you can't judge how we are doing on one season....whether that is storming the league or struggling.
     
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  12. Puck

    Puck Well-Known Member

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    A few points:
    • There is nothing "wrong" with being run sustainably - Man City have posted profits for the last couple of years - but for me a football club's primary aim should be success on the pitch, not financial success. When Rupert Lowe was in charge we saw what happens when sustainability and financial prudence are taken too far. We're not in the same situation now by any means but there are certain vague similarities. Before anyone mentions Leeds or Pompey, get real. We're not remotely on the level of those two.
    • I agree with those above who don't believe the club can compete with big clubs... while we're run sustainably. Large scale investment changes that though. I would also point out that it's the club that started this sort of talk and has (until recently) been making noises about Champions League qualification and, in Cortese's case, regular Champions League football and winning the league. I think this is where some of the fan discontent comes from. The club has made big statements in the past but doesn't appear to have been able to back them up and may now be scaling back the ambition. If those at the top don't believe we can succeed then why would anyone else?
    • Haha, Saints getting 70k. What a hilarious idea~! LOL, ROFL etc <doh> Stadium attendances are not the be-all and end-all any more. However there is no reason why Saints can't attract much larger crowds than they currently do. The club sold almost 50k tickets for the JPT final and could have sold more. Obviously not all those people will be able to go every week but it shows there was a potential fan base around even 5 years ago. Would it happen overnight? No, of course not, but success attracts more fans.
    • Beddy points out that Chelsea's attendances aren't much higher than ours. I'll go further. In the mid-90s Chelsea and Man City (while they were in the top division) were getting crowds of less than 30k. Chelsea's first season averaging more than a 35k attendance was only 2001/02.
    • Geography. No, we can't compare to Manchester or London but the Southampton-Portsmouth built up area has a higher population than Newcastle-Sunderland and similar to Liverpool. Just down the road you have Bournemouth-Poole, another reasonably large population centre. Both Newcastle-Sunderland and Liverpool sustain two clubs that get sizable attendances (roughly 80k combined in Liverpool-Everton's case and 90k in Newcastle-Sunderland). In short, there are plenty of potential ticket buyers in the area.
    • Wider support is just as, if not more, important these days than just your local area. I have lived or worked in London for 16 years or so. I don't recall ever seeing Man City shirts in the year 2000. Now I see them a lot. I wonder why? Do these people in Man City shirts buy them to show their admiration for the club's sustainable business practices or because they win titles and play in the Champions League?
    • The latest potential investors are Chinese. I know nothing about them so I won't comment on them specifically but I do know China is an enormous market. A club owned by a Chinese Abramovich or Sheikh (if such a creature exists) and playing in the Champions League regularly would have the potential to rake in huge amounts of money from shirt and merchandise sales.
     
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  13. Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)

    Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc) Well-Known Member

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    It isn't actually required to have a huge stadium to be successful. Chelsea and Liverpool, for example, won champions leagues whilst playing in stadiums just 10,000 larger than St Mary's. Due to ridiculous tv money and owner investment, gate receipts play a fairly small part.

    Anyway, my main point is that if we spent a sh*tload and bought the top players in Europe and went on to be successful, of course we could fill 70,000... eventually. We have the advantage of being a one club city. Not only that but Saints attract a varied fanbase from across hampshire rather than just the city itself. The population of Hampshire was 1.2 million people way back in 2011, that number will have significantly grown by now. Add in all the fans from other nearby counties (surprisingly quite a few) and it would fill 70,000.

    Obviously this is only if we were winning league titles, playing champions league and winning cups on a regular basis, which is never going to happen. All slightly irrelevant but an interesting debate nonetheless.
     
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  14. Velcro Roy

    Velcro Roy Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="Archers


    Although well done Fats for reminding me that as soon as our current form turns around, the conversation will shift from "this will probably be my last season as a fan" to "how many more tiers can we build at St Mary's?" <laugh>[/QUOTE]

    Probably,but if it's generally sunny it still wont stop me grizzling when it's bloody pissing down! <laugh>
     
    #154
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  15. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

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    We may have the numbers in our catchment area, but are they as football mad as up North and London? Genuine question. I meet Saints fans and a few people who support other teams, but many, many people will not engage in football talk at all....they are not interested. I try a leading question hoping to elicit a response, but usually just get a polite and surprised acknowledgment that I follow football. Try that in Manchester or Newcastle and the response is very different.
     
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  16. Osvaldorama

    Osvaldorama Well-Known Member

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    I feel like our fan base is suffering from our outrageous rise.
    FLT is right, we have a club to be proud of. But as fans we have been spoilt with euphoric moments. The Wembley win, the promotions, Rickie playing for England.

    Now we are just a standard average PL side like Stoke/WBA and our fans have to adjust to that.
     
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  17. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    This.
     
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  18. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    I am giggling tht so many people are now referring to my 70,000 fans :)
     
    #158
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  19. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Yes, albeit we're stoke/wba for a few months. To the outside world, we were 7th three games ago and still that up coming whipper snapper called Southampton.

    This is why I think people need to step back and give it some time. We may be in a blip, we may be falling back permenantly. Way to soon to know.
     
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  20. Beddy

    Beddy Plays the percentage

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    That is very true...........But if we are supposed to be heading for regular European football (as per our boards Rhetoric) challenging for the top 6/8 places as has been suggested. Then surely that is what should happen, why do we have to be compared to teams like that, when we have already proved we can do better. Why should we settle as the also rans, we have been and can do better!!
     
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