Go or Stay - Your Thoughts.

euros 2008 & 2012 World Cup in 2010 very progressive! That says to me one team over 4 years..

 

Developed over fifteen years by investing in coaching and facilities. England does not match it.

 

really? My support has been 100% owner manager most of team .... only provisio was when the points run out I reserved the right to reconsider... and likely then would be support for same set up/or close player wise 2017/18 till about game 10 or 12............

 

A team that gelled together over a period of 4 years, same as France did before.. both teams have done nothing since..
More consistent are Italy Germany & Brazil..
I said before in this thread regarding Leicester, it's all about getting a team to gel together and be on form all at the same time....the masters at this Are Germany and more often than not Italy..fairly ordinary in qualifying rounds, turns it on in the tournaments..

 

Spain's success was not formed over four years. I use the word formed because that is what occurred. The FA, the club and leagues all made a collective commitment to producing skilful adaptable players for possession-based game. That philosophy was created at least a decade before the first European Championship win. The World Cup in 2010 was fifteen years of planning.

To say they have done noting since is disingenuous. One of the aims was to ensure Spain's league was mainly full of Spanish players. That commitment has been achieved meanwhile in the EPL less than 35% are English.

Spanish teams at club level and national level outperform England.

 

I've never said any different, England are rubbish compared. Where have I said the England setup is great?
I've said all along, I don't believe our players are technically in the same league, never have been.
Not sure where the argument is.
Not totally convinced about all this progressive development being the be all though..we've lagged behind since time begun, I think part of the problem is many supporters in this country hates the "passing and patient game" and just want players to boot it up the field..the same in junior football, it's all about winning, use your biggest players and being top of the league..
Big money in the premiership increases the pressure to win things and managers are frightened to bring in young talent.. so many aspects of the game is wrong and our national side loses out.. seems more people care less about the national side compared to their club doing well in champions league...there lends the problem..
Nb. It was Johan Cruyff that influenced the Barcelona & Spanish way of playing with the passing & movement style. Holland was renowned for its progressive development.. club & country fail in most tournaments..you can have as much progressive developments as you like, but if all your players don't gel at the same time (especially tournaments) you win nothing.. Going back to my earlier comment in this thread Greece & Denmark won the Euros with teams that just gelled together at the same time..

 

Yes the Netherlands influenced Spain, but ideas were honed, improved by the Spanish and became a national philosophy.

England is well behind a nation like Spain when it comes down to developing players. There is no national philosophy which is being adhered to, if there was one there is not the framework of coaches to equal what is done in nations such as France, Germany and Spain. Iceland has more coaches per capita than England does.

The FA, FL and EFL do not work in unison for the good of the game.

The above occurs in Spain. That is a progressive football model. The results and the players produced playing highly technical football were not an accident.

 

Forgive my interjection but whatever happened to the "Centre for Excellence" that was supposed to change everything? Don't tell me we sold that as well, along with our souls.

 

Maybe.....
This highly technical football, as you call it, in my mind is up for debate if we're talking tippy tappy..(is what Barcelona & Spain play)
Barcelona have had a mixture of brilliant players (including many with different nationalities) over the last decade or so that have gelled and have possibly the best player in the world playing for them.(100s of goals)
Spain on the other hand, not quite the same in tournaments, yes they had the mentioned spell but in my mind a fair way behind compared to the likes of Italy, Germany & Brazil to say their way, is the future..
Spains style I believe has been found out (at times quite boring, sometimes over passing) and not as good as many think they are..
Most consistent country for world tournament football has to be Germany...I've always said since 1970, "never ever write the Germans off" will always be there or thereabouts!!

 

The limitations are that St Georges Park (the new Centre for Excellence) cannot change everything. A centre cannot equal what thousands of coaches could do.

England needs a national strategy and massive framework of coaches working across the countries grass roots clubs to drive wider change.

I should have worded that differently. Spain's style is not highly complex, it is essentially short, simple, quick, early and requires players of high technical ability to perform to the required standard. Simple is done better and faster.

Winning two consecutive European championships and a Word cup with its false nine was due to passing excellence ... Nobody has passed the ball better.

Spanish football is set up to continue to be there or thereabouts for the future. Its just a hope for England.

 

I agree it's just a hope for England. I wouldn't just narrow it down to being "Spanish football" though and I imagine you include Barcelona in that quote.. style etc..
It's great to watch when played quickly against weaker opposition, but against decent sides they have no idea regarding defending.. as Barcelona found out against PSG & Juventus..
Spain were also found out in both the last euros & World Cup, so by far not the finished product..
Like I said, Italy, Germany (clubs & country) & Brazil are by far more robust and consistent. Italy being masters at defending!!

 

Spain and their club sides demolished teams, including the best. Football evolves and players get older, both happened to Spain. Counter pressing requires ultra fit players and stamina - Youth. A certain Mr Klopp has also experienced his gegenpressing to be problematic for the less than youthful in other nations.

Produce better rounded players, they will provide more flexibility. The Germans and Spanish will continue to produce better rounded players for football that will continue to evolve. They will go from plan A to plan B. England as a footballing nation is not set up to do similar.

 

I think it's also to do with;
Most players from the Spain side come from either Real Madrid or Barcelona (top two sides)
Most players from the German side come from Bayern M & Dortmund (top two sides)
Most players from the Italian side comes from Juventus & Milan (top two sides).
Look how many English players feature in Chelsea, Man U, Man C & Arsenal..
In my opinion for us to get the best national side, there needs to be a reduction in foreign players in the premiership for each club and to give our young talent more play time at the top level.. like I said before, such big money at stake, it will never happen..

 

I would put it down to most players in Spain come through a development system that schools, junior clubs and Professional clubs are all part of. This ensures that Spanish kids receive a football education from primary school and onwards that English kids generally will not.

An example. Most English schools will not have anybody coaching kids with a level two coaching badge. In Spain that coaching qualification is mandatory.

This is how the foundation stage (5-11) progresses (!?)in England. The next stage youth development stage (11-16 is again not meeting the standards of counter parts, and then the early pro stage again is clearly inadequate.

The Spanish address there needs to be a reduction in foreign players by ensuring the above cannot happen via their national fidelity concept - Commitment that Spanish kids get the best football education, and thus more players are produced for Spanish teams. A success.

Other nations do similar .

Things can always change. It costs around £450 to train a coach to level two standard, one less Paul Pogba would pay to double the amount of coaches England already has.

 

I'm out of touch a bit now but there were organisations (Brazilian soccer) floating around the schools to do just that and still do as far as I'm aware, not sure whether the coaches are level 2 or not..
I get what you're saying but I think part of the problem is that kids from 7 onwards tend to join competitive clubs in leagues etc, then it becomes about winning rather than the fundamentals of learning the skills..
You should aquire your level 2 and start a soccer school of excellence without competition until the age of 13... you seem to know what's required..go for it!!
I thought about doing my coaching badges a few years ago when my son was young enough.too long in the tooth now though!!

 

I know personally know the individual (and Son) who runs First Steps Soccer (formerly Brazilian soccer schools) ... They are very very good at what they do, its fun and beneficial but it does not fit all, but as a small business it only can do so much.

Kids playing U7, U8, U9, U10 supposedly are playing non competitive football. Again education is lacking to steer clubs, parents and kids away from win at all costs via bigger, stronger faster instead of developing skillful players.

Level 2 ... I have that qualification, intend educating myself further, currently coach four times a week ... Have the energy but not the time to do more.





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Good for you mate.. I admire your efforts..
I did know one of them at the Brazilian soccer school, not sure if he's still there, (R Bush) played a couple of games for a club I ran..
Talking of Spanish football, I'm currently in Spain, I will see if I can check out any coaching tips while I'm here!!

 

sort of got hijacked this thread? thought it was stay or go!

 

Yes lets start this thread again STAY OR GO, i'm saying STAY, no more mumbo jumbo please.