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gills found guilty by court tribunal of racial victimisation and unfair dismissal

Discussion in 'Gillingham' started by gills4everandaday, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. gillslad69

    gillslad69 Member

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    His roommates were Josh Gowling and Curtis Weston were they not? Both of them ran their contracts to the end and were not dismissed, if they could claim that they weren't offered new contracts because they are black then anarchy would ensue. I remember when Stimson was in charge, a mate of mine met McCammon in belugas and was told (by MM) how much of a 'p$$$k' Stimson was. It makes me rage when I think of how many players are struggling to break through into the professional game and this one is unhappy because he didn't milk the club of enough money.

    About his dismissal though, I think he was told that his contract would be terminated in february although I'm unsure as to when his contract would have run it's course. Do you all think the club is going to appeal?

    Just noticed brb answered it already... sorry about that.
     
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  2. alwaysright

    alwaysright @ Very Angry Camel

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    brb I accept your point about advice from the lawyers that the Club might defend the claims by McCammon -but - and call me a cynic - the lawyers win regardless of the outcome - in fact it may well have been in their interest to prolong the matter - and advise to go to tribunal - when, perhaps they knew the Club would lose.
     
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  3. throwoff

    throwoff Member

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    According to the Mirror Scally has told them we will be appealing.
     
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  4. brb

    brb Guest

    throwoff- I found this link, so not sure if this is the correct one...http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...peal-verdict-they-racially-victimised-1191871

    My usual opinion of media headline sensationalism, if that is the correct article?

    The headline reads: 'We're no racists: Gillingham vow to appeal 'staggering' McCammon verdict'
    Noting the headline quotes only 'staggering'

    but then reading down the article it states: “We will discuss the *judgment with our lawyers and decide upon the next course of action, whether that be an appeal, or another form of action.”

    Against the earlier statement of: He told the Mirror: “People can see for themselves in our *statement that we are staggered by the ruling and we will fight it.

    So which statement was made first. Surely he would not have had time to discuss this with the lawyers on how to proceed, before making any statement to 'appeal' as the headline suggests.
     
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  5. bristol407

    bristol407 Well-Known Member

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    Liverpool paid a heavy price in terms of image, results and reputation by arguing the toss about Suarez. Scally please note.
     
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  6. alwaysright

    alwaysright @ Very Angry Camel

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    I am going to risk the displeasure of some of you......

    As I see it, McCammon was an employee of GFC - ( forget his skin colour. ) Surely the employer has a right to 'use' the employee in any manner as they see fit ( without the command breaking any law etc.) Scally & Hess required the employee to attend his place of work to help the employee to recover ( employee was on sick leave at the time.) ... OK the weather was bad that day - but I got into work despite snow drifting up against my garage & 40 yard driveway - up to 3' ! The employer was concerned that any interruption to the recovery program of the employee would be detrimental and was 'insistant.' OK, we know that other employees of a lighter skin colour were not required to attend their place of work - but they were not in need of the treatment that related to McCammon - regardless of their skin colour.
    As I see it it was McCammon who is the racist - suggesting, for no good reason that Hess 'treated' him in the described manner because of his skin colour.
    I cannot abide any form racism - but that also includes any person ( usually of a darker skin colour ) suggesting that racism is involved just because they don't like their working conditions ( all that and at a level of being the highest paid person (nearly said player ) in the history of the club. )
     
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  7. bristol407

    bristol407 Well-Known Member

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    Its not like you to miss the point by a mile always. Firstly you are generalising on one aspect of the judgment when there is a catalogue of issues. On your one aspect you are missing the point that that this is all about equality and nothing at all to do with using an employee as the employer thinks fit. You can hardly argue that the employer was concerned about helping the victim to recover when they wanted him on a NHS waiting list at the time they were giving King a VIP private op. Worst of all was Scally's contempt for the grievance procedure let alone the embarrassing collusion over evidence. Scally is supposed to set standards in the club not drag them into the gutter.
    To make the situation worse we now have a squad made up almost entirely of white players and a manager suspended at a previous employment for alleged racial remarks. The liverpool /Suarez episode showed the folly of arguing innocence against overpowering evidence to the contrary. The only way out of this is to eat humble pie, appoint a new Chairman and adopt exemplary equality procedures to every aspect of running the Club. The rest of the Board are going to have to hang their heads in shame (they establish the attitudes in the Club) and a couple of appointments from minority groups on to the Board will be needed. It is time for damage limitation not belligerence.
     
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  8. gillingham kangaroo

    gillingham kangaroo Active Member

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    well said always (right again).tatally agree.He was only at gillingham for the money,never showed any passion or effort.Even at half time when he was on the bench he would stand around chatting when the other subs would be darting about.He acted as though he was something special and we owed him something when in fact he must go down as one of our worst signings ever (considering his wages).He took us to tribunal only to milk more money out of us .I feel sorry for Hess as he was doing what was best for the gills as Mcammon was not fit to wear the shirt.I cant believe the outcome of this ,it is wrong and unjust.
     
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  9. gillingham kangaroo

    gillingham kangaroo Active Member

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    please Martin Allen pick players for their ability not their colour.I would love to have Simeon,barcham or Akinfenwa back tomo purely for their ability,loved them all,not Oli or Mcammon who were not up to the standand,colour of skin does not come into it.People are being dragged into the money making racist issue.
     
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  10. alwaysright

    alwaysright @ Very Angry Camel

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    bristol407 I don't mind if you disagree with me - ( I did say I was going to incur displeasure ) ..
    Scally & Hess made a judgement on the method of McCammon's treatment - that he did not like. Now if I accept that the situation was not fair - does it make it unfair on grounds of racial discrimination just because of skin colour - I humbly submit that unfairness towards McCammon is not necessarily connected to racial discrimination. I rather suspect that the tribunal has made a mistake in combining the two - just because the player decided to introduce the allegation into the equation - and I cannot see any evidence of this aspect of the matter.
    So, bristol407 - I may accept that McCammon may have been unfairly dismissed - but, in the absence of associated evidence , I cannot accept that any action/unfairness/stupidity on behalf of Scally, Hess etc was committed with any racist motive.


    edit - to gillingham kangaroo - you are WRONG.................... McCammon IS the worst player we have signed.
     
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  11. HOADIE_BOI

    HOADIE_BOI Well-Known Member

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    This really angers me, have a look at this on twitter, Dylan Ford, a player who was released by us at the end of last season. I wonder what he would be saying if he was still a Gills player. I really am annoyed and will leave it to you to add to this.
    https://twitter.com/dylanf48
     
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  12. The Gills PegLeg

    The Gills PegLeg Up yer Harris

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    Never heard of him and I doubt he would be saying that if we had kept him on. Seems a bit bitter if you ask me
     
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  13. gillingham kangaroo

    gillingham kangaroo Active Member

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    when will people realise these characters will milk the system to the hilt because they are allowed to and it is very profitable.
     
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  14. BSG

    BSG Well-Known Member

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    always I understand your point of view but I would suggest that the tribunal has seen a significantly greater amount of evidence than we, the general public, have been spoon fed by the media. The tribunal have probably seen hundreds of cases like this and are in a better position to judge than the fans.

    I tend to agree more with Bristol, but he seems to be angling the majority of his anger towards Scally, when to me the entire management system are equally to blame, including Hessenthaler
     
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  15. bristol407

    bristol407 Well-Known Member

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    BSG. The board has to take responsibility for the attitudes and policies in the Club. The management system reflects the Board and particularly the Chairman who you may remember sacked the Chief Exec a couple of years ago so that he could have complete control. Scally is personally linked to several of the issues. Hessy's only real failing was to lose his temper and I would not mind betting that Hessy was under an instruction to " just get rid of him". It is a difficult situation of course when the Charman needs to go but he owns the club. An interesting next Board meeting. i wonder if the other directors will do their job....or just bottle it.
     
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  16. BSG

    BSG Well-Known Member

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    Bristol I totally understand your view point and to a large extent agree but Hess has to accept some of the guilt / blame. The majority of the face to face player interaction would happen with the manager, and seeing that Scally spent the predominant part of the last few seasons in Dubia, I don't he had much interaction with the players. If McCammon's grievances are too be taken on face value and the systematic discrimination went on over a period of time it would be logical to assume that the source would be someone who had frequent contact with McCammon. Also I would suggest that it is the manager's job, not the chairman's, who decides on who should be present at the training ground at any given time.

    The manager also decides on which players he keeps and lets go, so I think your "get rid" speculation is somewhat flawed. Even if this was the case it would require at least a level of compliance from the manager to achieve the aim. That complience would still be enough in my opinuion to make Hess' position with the culb untenable. The "just following orders" arguement didn't work for war criminal and neither should it here.

    I think your admiration of Hess is well known on this board and it is alway disappointing when someone we respect falls but I am afraid Hesshas to take his share of blame in this situation
     
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  17. brb

    brb Guest

    I'm getting nervous about this thread now.

    I accept like many others, I went to work to far greater distances and through some extreme difficulties in the snow. I also believe like many others that a player like all players will have their ability questioned when they play for our club, especially more so if we know they are earning the sort of money most of us will never earn. However, surely all of that is irrelevant.

    An employer cannot make an unauthorised deduction from our wages. You can argue whether a percentage should have been in a contract but if it was not then I just cannot see how such a deduction can be made, unless there is an aspect of law that I am missing.

    Every individual has the right to make a complaint, it does not matter what your opinion is on an individual, it does not matter whether you agree with an individual, but if there was any failure to follow a process it will only lead to problems, you should be making sure you dot every i and cross every t. If there was any capability and conduct issues, we would expect a due process to occur. Ensure you follow any process (within the ACAS code) looking at previous recorded examples within your company history and within current legislation, regarding, complaints, disciplinary or dismissal so it cannot be brought into question (no suggestion there was) at a later time, why if anything, something was done differently. Also this assists in avoiding racial allegations.

    We do not know who did what internally within the club unless reported within the media, therefore we should also not speculate in regards to the Chairman or any of the management team or its employee's.

    We might not like it, we might not agree with it but the tribunal has found in McCammon's favour. Believe me if it had not found in his favour, I would be having a totally different conversation.

    If the club believe that aspects of the decision are wrong, we have the right to appeal. If it goes to appeal, any outcome will allow us to look at our thoughts again, however, at this moment in time, we just need to please be careful.
     
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  18. brb

    brb Guest

    #78
  19. Rothmans

    Rothmans New Member

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    The gist of what is coming out is that GFC not only failed to act upon the complaint of racism but used it against him in the letter that attempted to dispense of his services.....that has to be an own goal? Indeed, MM's lawyer pretty much indicated that it was one of their best pieces of evidence. Shambles!
     
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  20. gioblues

    gioblues Well-Known Member

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    Gills should have been found guilty of unfair dismissal. I really do not believe it had anything to do with race. It makes me so angry when black people bring out the race card. He was treated diffrently only because he was given a large contract but he was rubbish and Gills wanted him to leave so they could bring in better value.
    Do you think Iffy Asaba Akinfenwa and other black players felt there was racism at the club , No. They were good players who were looked after. There is loads of players who no longer fit in with clubs who may or not be black. Do they think it is racism when they are released.
     
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