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Transfer Rumours Gibbo

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by Delusional Full Stop, Jul 19, 2017.

  1. magpie290761

    magpie290761 Well-Known Member

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    Carroll certainly was unusual in that he did nowt on loan yet came back and shone. I would still suggest the experience benefitted him better than playing reserve football prior to the first team. Fraser Forster certainly benefitted but sadly left a choice between him and Krul with neither wanting to be second fiddle so one had to be sold, our hand was forced sadly.
    There is no doubt that a loan in mans football is better for the kids. However if in truth they are just not good enough anyway for our first team it's irrelevant although does improve them as players and puts them in the shop window to be sold hopefully to bring in revenue to provide the facilities to train the next batch. I do think though that too many managers, not just here, just don't give the lads a first team chance. Partly through fear of losing and partly through pressure from fans for glamour signings. A lot of the poor and average players we have paid good money for could have in fact been replaced by our kids who at least couldn't do worse and some unexpected gems would emerge. Either way saving the club money in transfer funds paid and probably wages and making some when the lesser ones are sold on as "first team" players. Managers have to have the bottle to do it. Fans have to support them in trying it even though some won't work and our academy and scouts need improving to get better players coming through anyway.
     
    #61
  2. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to know the geographical split of players coming through the ranks across the whole country/league(s). It feels like this region which used to be a veritable production line of talented footballers produces almost **** all in footballing talent these days. And if that hypothesis is correct then an inquest needs to be held as to why that is the case. A large part of it must be a poor standard of coaching, although I suspect there is a massive shift in youth culture, in the north east at least.
     
    #62
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  3. RobEllious

    RobEllious Well-Known Member

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    Off the top of my head, Henderson, Carrick, Shearer, probably one more.
    That's a poor showing for a large area, Leeds seem to churn out players to sell to prem teams every year
     
    #63
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  4. magpie290761

    magpie290761 Well-Known Member

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    There are still dozens of kids playing league football every Saturday and Sunday to a good standard but the quality of scouting and academy coaching and academy policies still fails to pick up the quality that is there and nurture it properly.
     
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  5. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    Part of it must also be a numbers game - the more kids play it the bigger chance of someone coming through and making the standard. What I'm asking, though, is are other parts of the country producing more footballers and if so what are they doing differently? I feel like we don't produce much talent as a region these days (maybe I'm wrong).
     
    #65
  6. RobEllious

    RobEllious Well-Known Member

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    Everton/Liverpool, Leeds, London areas down to Charlton, , Southampton, Manchester.
    All areas that have produced way more PL-worthy players than ours. Those clubs alone cover their areas, and no doubt are the ones signing up the best on offer there anyway, so you're right region-by-region I would argue its not adding up.
    I guess the positions our big clubs are in, Boro are the only ones who don't tend to sit on a knife-edge every season and to their credit have produced a little more English talent than us or the unwashed. I'd argue the talents there and Sunderland could do a Leeds, in that they are forced to bring youth through due to finances. However for us it will remain much the same, we don't have the comfortability to risk it for at least another two seasons in prem.
    The last times I saw youth in the team was when Pardew had no ****er else left on the bench, and before then when we were comfortably in the prem around Robson era. Then we were just unlucky that Huntington, Ramage, Taylor, etc were ****.
    The talents there but the north east clubs have rarely been in the position to risk. Be it Sunderland's love affair with relegation battles, our terrible blueprint of buying Frenchies (and love of relegation battles) and Boro and their love of chasing promotion, to end up in a relegation battle
     
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  7. Judge Death

    Judge Death Well-Known Member

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    I think we're still suffering from Keegan's decision to disband reserves etc - we missed an entire generation near enough in terms of players, but also lost the infrastructure / staffing etc necessary to bring younger players through.

    Also - factor in that up to this season we haven't had Grade 1 academy (or whatever they're called) has probably hurt us as well - let's face it, everyone's parents wants their kids to go to the best schools

    Additionally, add in that we've flirted with relegation for a few season before finally succumbing, so the temptation is to get players for "now", we've not really had the luxury of easing a few youngsters into a winning team that other clubs have
     
    #67
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  8. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    That was over 20 years ago and wasn't it only for one season. Anyway, I'm not just talking about Newcastle, these kids could go to any club and learn their trade, I'm saying fewer pro footballers seem to come from the north east. The infrastructure and culture up here must need looking at.
     
    #68
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  9. RobEllious

    RobEllious Well-Known Member

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    Nah mate, Carrick/Shearer and the like, look into it and you'll find quite a decent amount of players are actually FROM the North East, they just haven't been spoiled by the youth systems in the NE clubs
     
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  10. Darren Peacock’s Ponytail

    Darren Peacock’s Ponytail Well-Known Member

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    Any more news on this?
     
    #70

  11. magpie290761

    magpie290761 Well-Known Member

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    The talent is there but the route to the top needs seriously looking at
     
    #71
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  12. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    What about the last 10 years? A proportionate number to the size of the population in the north east? Maybe there are but it doesn't feel like it to me.
     
    #72
  13. RobEllious

    RobEllious Well-Known Member

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    Well proportionate again goes back to my theory, is there a lot of players from Yorkshire? Yes there is, when was the last time a Yorkshire club was in the prem?
    I cant find you the stats and figures but still think the major factor is our clubs, not everyone would move to Southampton/West Ham at 16/17 so where are they? Plenty with talent I'd imagine so why havent we brought them through? Even the likes of Steve Bruce etc. Everyone has to go elsewhere for chances from our area. Last time we let youth through was waddle, Gascoigne, beardsleay. Was that through choice? No
     
    #73
  14. magpie290761

    magpie290761 Well-Known Member

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    Actually the last time we really let youth through was with Elliott, Howey, Watson, Thompson and Clark with a few others at the time getting chances and some doing ok.
    Teams often are just frightened to give lads a chance and certainly a number of them at the same time. Will probably always be the case. The standard of scouting, academies and coaching still needs vast improvement though to ensure we get the best and nurture and improve them properly to give the best chance of breaking through.
     
    #74
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  15. Darren Peacock’s Ponytail

    Darren Peacock’s Ponytail Well-Known Member

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    Partly because of the fans - the amount of stick some of our youngsters have had in the past for not instantly performing is ridiculous (the same applies to new players at the club in that if they don't hit the ground running then they are booed)

    But why we didn't give Armstrong a chance last season is beyond me. This is why players like Gibson will leave.
     
    #75
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  16. Delusional Full Stop

    Delusional Full Stop Here to serve all your counselling needs.
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    Your point about Armstrong is spot on. Our youngsters will never make the grade if they are never given a proper chance in the first team in the PL. Armstrong is now 20 yo and we apparently are looking to loan him out for another season to a Championship Club meaning he will be 21 yo before he possibly gets a chance to make it in our first team. He'll not be a youngster soon and will likely fall by the wayside as he wasn't tested at the top level soon enough. We need to be putting trust in these kids sooner and at a younger age if they are going to make the grade.

    Gazza was 17 yo when he made his debut and then played regularly after that. I know talent wise he was a bit of a one off but most kids were being played from about 18/19 yo back in the day and there is no reason why that shouldn't be the case now. Think back over the last 10 years or so and think of all the rubbish we have played in our first team when it could easily have been an up and coming youngster.

    We should simply stop molly coddling them. Throw them in the deep end and see if they sink or swim, you never know we could discover a new Shearer or a Beardsley. In any event it's better than the smothering death to their careers known as the loan system.
     
    #76
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  17. Darren Peacock’s Ponytail

    Darren Peacock’s Ponytail Well-Known Member

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    So it is official - he has joined Everton.

    Well done NUFC! Pathetic!
     
    #77
  18. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Very disappointing but sounds like he has had his head turned and we had no power over the situation.

    Surely if we could have offered him a first team squad place it might have changed things though? Hard to know I suppose. A lot of his England mates are already there aren't they so maybe that has played a part. Not good but I suppose we just have to accept where we stand in the grand scheme of things. Bigger clubs take players all the time. I'm sure if Man U, Man C or Chelsea decide they want him in 3 years time, they will take him of Everton.
     
    #78
  19. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    He's already been loaned to Bolton. Right decision. Loans are better experience than playing in our U23 team and he simply isn't good enough to feature in the first team.
     
    #79
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  20. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    How could we realistically offer him a first team place though? He's never made an appearance for the U23s and only made 9 U18 appearances in his entire 'career'. He can't be anywhere near ready for that level and I'm pretty sure it'll be a couple of years before we see him anywhere near the Everton first team.
     
    #80
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