F1 2017 SEASON: NEWS - RUMOURS

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by EternalMSC, May 9, 2016.

  1. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot will come out about what Bernie has been up to the last 20 or so years. Now there is nothing to be scared of by coming out with the truth, we're going to hear a lot more.

    Hope Bernie has got plenty of funds to pay silence money........
     
    #641
  2. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    Bit harsh to single ouy Baku as we've had an array of white elephants, but other than that It's mostly right. Bernie had got way too gready and the whole thing was revolving around his own wealth. Look how much the old sod has sucked out of the sport.
     
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  3. Julius Caesar

    Julius Caesar Well-Known Member
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    #643
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  4. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    Im guessing a bluff to pressure Honda into change. Unless there are get out clauses in the contract....

    I can see Mercedes being up for this as well, stops them having room to supply Red Bull <whistle>
     
    #644
  5. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
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    If having your lead driver (amongst others) publicly crap on them from a great height isn't sufficiently motivating, I'm not sure this would be. Although I guess Honda are only taking the damage to their reputation now because they believe they'll get the engine right soon enough and then reap the PR benefits. But if they don't have a team prepared to run their engines by the time they get it right, they never see those PR benefits.

    I could really see Mercedes being prepared to supply them, assuming they have the factory capacity. Mclaren's budget has fallen towards Williams levels, and as a customer team there's little chance of them putting a package together to rival Mercedes. Honda getting their engine right is a bigger threat than Mclaren-Mercedes.
     
    #645
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  6. El_Bando

    El_Bando Found
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    Honda and Mclaren need a junior team. more mileage, more testing more problem fixing = bigger chance of success.
     
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  7. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    Do I remember correctly that in the even of no PU deal the PU suppliers decide which PU a team gets? i.e. McL have a PU deal with Honda, if they terminate the deal, then Honda are one of the PU suppliers who could be forced to supply McL :emoticon-0102-bigsm
    So in theory McL have to negotiate a deal from Merc, Ferrari, or Renault to enable them to avoid a Honda PU. Can't see that happening :emoticon-0102-bigsm
    Must admit I can see why Ron went for a manufacturer PU and he must have known early days would be difficult but not this bad.

    Still cant really work out how PU OK on dyno but not in chassis. Surely they tested complete power train on a chassis dyno? So why didn't they notice destructive vibrations? I am assuming here that McL haven't made some massive cock up and created the vibrations from the chassis?
     
    #647
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  8. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    Must admit I only have limited sympathy for Honda if Gilles left because they refused to heed his advice .

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39183145

    I'm not saying he was right , of course I/we don't know . Just saying they need all the help they can get ( or so it seems ) .
     
    #648
  9. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    #649
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  10. EternalMSC

    EternalMSC Well-Known Member

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    I can really imagine Mclaren-Mercedes happening again, Honda seem the same place they were back in 15.
     
    #650

  11. Big Ern

    Big Ern Well-Known Member

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    can't see it til next season, otherwise they'll have to completely redesign the car so it fits.

    The thing is, they can now develop it and will have some feedback from the race weekends, I wouldn't be surprised if McHRT are crap for a while and then suddenly knock a few seconds off their lap times and start challenging.
     
    #651
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  12. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member
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    The problem is, with no in season testing I cant see how they can rectify the current structural issues of the power train. Their Dyno is obviously not replicating on track strain and G force which means they are unable to fully understand the problems they have and the further problems they will find!

    The key issue here, is that even with the engine turned down (-50Hp on the 2016 output) the longest run they did was 11 laps, that's not even going to get them through Q1. They haven't even scratched the surface of what further issues have yet to be found through mileage and increased engine stresses. If they are unable to do mileage in the initial fly aways they are not learning anything, let alone able to develop and before you know it we will be in the Summer break.

    If they had a test mule running non stop around Suzuka or Silverstone I would give them the benefit of the doubt to both develop and design themselves out of the mess. With mileage you can develop or rectify through default, but lets be Frank, they have Bob hope!

    For all Honda's faults and lets be honest, the principle issue here is Honda, McLaren have massively lost their way and quite honestly I think they are deluded! EB quoted below:

    "Eric Boullier says McLaren would be winners with Mercedes power in 2017."

    Although we've heard comments like these in the past, there is a big difference to a driver inferring if he were in the Merc he'd be winning races and McLaren stating they would win with a Merc Engine! Their chassis last year had many flaws and although showed signs of pace and stability at certain tracks, they were miles away from where they needed to be. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that they have absolutely no idea on how good their car is until they can get representative data and unless they can put lap times in akin to Merc etc. they don't know their full areo, tyre wear, suspension etc. They might as well through a dart at design in a dark room!
     
    #652
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
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  13. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    Brings me back to 2014 where Red Bull couldn't get their Renault to last more than 10 or so laps. You always felt like Renault could fix it though, in Caterhams less tight packaging the PU could just about limp around a race distance. With all their issues they had at least one team able to pound around lap after lap.

    Honda have one team that can't even string together 10 laps. Honda and McLaren are now paying the price for not having customer teams. Surely it would have been easy to get Sauber or someone on board. Just a single extra team would probably double the available data, and I bet in a less racey car the PU would have a few less struggles.
     
    #653
  14. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    Honda/McL should have bought Manor. They would then have a way of getting twice as much data while being able to take chassis and bodywork risks etc to see how things go.

    Read an article this morning and Honda are saying that they had 1 issue not lots. They believe they have fixed the issue and will be ready to go in OZ!!!! But they will have mapping to sort. Interesting as Alonso said that the mapping was good at the tests. Maybe he just meant the mapping up to 50% power as that is all they could manage?

    Hope it's not just PR bull and they will have a PU at least as powerful as their 2016 PU. Then they can build on that. From what I understand they can't just bolt in a 2016 PU as it would not be strong enough to support extra forces from suspension etc. So it's a 2017 PU or nothing!!!
     
    #654
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  15. Big Ern

    Big Ern Well-Known Member

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    And they were the only team that beat Mercedes to the top step

    well, the major problem will probably be fixed, but I'll be surprised if they don't then find lots of smaller, trickier, ones when they finally turn up the wick.
     
    #655
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  16. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member
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    That's the issue, finding the teething problems in race trim. Even top teams like Merc found small issues that kept them in the garage for a couple of hours - McLaren will end up missing running time at GP's, whilst trying to develop the engine and find out if their car is any good. Scarbs said in the development corner video on Sky that he thought the McLaren chassis was pretty poor?
     
    #656
  17. El_Bando

    El_Bando Found
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    I think Ted on Sky said during a testing debrief that Mclaren have only just caught up with wind tunnel testing as their technology was behind the others as they were only doing front on wind testing.
     
    #657
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  18. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    If it is a fundamental design flaw, then they will need an entirely new concept of engine that development alone could not give.
     
    #658
  19. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    Hint hint....

    Since been pulled, an honest mistake?

    please log in to view this image
     
    #659
  20. EternalMSC

    EternalMSC Well-Known Member

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    Honda are on the way out. Writing on the wall.
     
    #660

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