F1 2016 Season: Lineup's - Rumours - News

I openly admin that I'm no particular fan of RBR simply because I really don't care for Horner and Helmut particularly... and I do feel that the decision to demote is particularly harsh and knee jerk regardless of the ins and outs of the whole situation.

Maybe my initial rant was misplaced, I saw it right as I woke and my initial reaction was shock at the nature of it. But I stand by my opinion that it's a bloody crappy thing to do and I certainly don't hide the fact that I'm no fan of the two mentioned above. I'm quite open about that, so any digs I take at them are quite openly bias on my part.

 

One additionalready point... I think Kvyat totally deserved to be knocked on his arse by Vettel. But to be so unceremoniously dumped back to the feeder team is an absolute disaster for his career. I'm not sure it deserved that level of response.

One more demotion and they'll be flinging him out of a hot air balloon on the edge of space.

 

Great last line!

You're entitled to your opinion - even if you are wrong ! I'd just prefer for it to be genuine reason/bias, not a false assumption!

I doubt this is a reaction to one race, they've had 42 races to assess Kvyat and 24 to assess Verstappen, he's clearly been under pressure for some time and I think last week was just the tipping point. The feeder team concept is new and it's understandable that people are seeing it as more short term than it really is.

I'm not prepared or confident to make any prediction about how this will turn out for either Kvyat or Verstappen. In a pretty dull season it will at least be something interesting to watch.

 

I think that's the thing... They've potentially made a rod for their own back and they'll be facing some pretty awkward questions if Verstappen (or an other young driver) has a period of poor form.

There's been a trend of bringing in younger drivers for a while now, and with that there's always the very real possibility that they'll be prone to error and will go through a period of maturing while they develop. People like Vettel are the exception to the rule, but they don't come around very often.

 

Imo the mistake was putting Kvyat in the car last year. He clearly wasn't ready and their hand was forced by Vettel leaving. Knowing them Renault engine was going to leave the uncompetitive I think they decided to take the risk, whilst it didn't really matter, it also meant they could bring in two more Rookies who were ready for TR.

The key question here is are they just making the same mistake again and promoting Verstappen too early. Clearly he will make some mistakes this year, but if he doesn't get demolished by Daniel and becomes consistent for next season, it will have been the right thing to do. If Daniel destroys his confidence and he regresses, the they've made the same mistake again.

 

That pretty much sums it up! It seems like they're rolling the dice when another year in Toro Rosso might just be the right thing for Verstappen to settle and grow some more. Who knows...it may be a stroke of genius, but could also be a massive own goal.

 

f1 is a gladitorial sport, it isn't a tree-huggers convention or hippy love festival where everyone's a winner because they take part and everyone gets a group hug at the end. If you can't take the heat, you won't be a good chef.

I think the opposite, Vettel and Ricciardo are in the top echelons of the drivers, Verstappen and Sainz will probably join them, that's not a bad pay out.

 

I don't disagree... but overreacting when a driver has a bad race isn't really good form... And it's not just Red Bull. Macca have been guilty of it with Perez and Magnussen in recent years. They really weren't given a car or the time and have been pretty much consigned to the also rans.

Red Bull had a gem with Vettel... there's no arguing that he's going to go down as one of the all time greats, Ricciardo has serious potential but the jury is out on Sainz and Verstappen for me. To me it feels like they're shuffling the deck in the hope of another Vettel popping up right now.

I don't like how they handled it, and all the discussion in the world won't change my mind on that one. If he was thoroughly atrocious I could understand it.

 

I just don't get the "overreacting when a driver has a bad race" bit, because imo Kvyat has never looked ready for this seat, and hasn't shown any signs of progress over the last 1.2 seasons. I'm a strong believer in taking action if something's not working, so I'd have had him out of RedBull over the winter and I see this as correcting that mistake.

If you think Kvyat has either merited the seat or was improving and becoming more consistent and showing signs of being ready in 2017 to drive for a team that wants to contend for the Championship then I can see why you think it's an overreaction, but otherwise I see this the same as the discussion in the 2017 thread about finding a driver to develop who shows signs of reaching the required level for Ferrari.

To put it another way, and this is the real reason I'd have kicked Kvyat out last winter: what if Daniel leaves or thinks about leaving in at the end of this year, with someone like Kvyat in the other car he has them over the barrel in contract negotiations or they'll be heading in to 2017 with one or two unknown quantities (at the sharp end of the grid) in Verstappen and Sainz or with an unknown quantity plus someone they know isn't good enough in Kvyat. These are good reasons to "shuffle the deck" in my opinion. By doing this if Verstappen does well they have strength in negotiations with Daniel or a known quantity if he leaves. They'll also know whether they need to participate in the driver market this year, which obviously they'd rather avoid, because their modus operandi is to develop talent.

Whilst I'd have had Kvyat out at the end of last year, because seasons only really matter if you are contending for the championship, I can't get too excited about this happening mid year.

For the record, I'd have dumped Perez and I'm not sure about Kevin, who I think was more a victim of more drivers than seats than he was of poor performance. Both however are rebuilding their careers and I still expect Kevin to win at least races one day.

 

I think it's difficult to tell for sure if he has potential... I'd probably lean more in the direction of not than does, but given how shoddy the car was last season it's fairly hard to judge for sure.

If RBR had doubts then they should have moved him out in winter, it would have been much kinder in many ways, but since they didn't, they should really stand by their decision to put him in and see what he can do. If they feel the need to shuffle him out 4 races in because they feel he's not up to it, then the management have some culpability in that too.

And yep, you're right, there's some overlap here with the Ferrari discussion. Ferrari should be looking for new talent and be brave enough to put one in the car alongside Vettel. Don't get me wrong, Red Bull deserve credit for being willing to do that, but i think they need to be very careful about how it's done imo. Their actions can ultimately help make or break these drivers. If they promote and expect too much too soon they may be hurting themselves as well.

The proof will be in the pudding I guess. If they keep Verstappen in the car we'll see how it plays out. They may wind up being totally vindicated.

 

One other thought on that.... It will be interesting to see what Verstappen's performance is like compared to Ricciardo. Ricciardo is pretty bloody quick.

 

Just watched this beautiful piece of footage. Will we ever see the sport return to hard-earned overtaking and monster sound?

 

pff, verstappen didn't lift, he went around the outside, as for the sound, there should be some vuvzelas left opver from the 2010 WC, stick 'em in the pipes.

 

Lol

 

after seeing the JPM onboard, and thinking about my subsequent post, maybe this decision comes from the very top. Horner and Dr Belly run the team, but they don't have the final say, I don't think they would've kept Webber. With Vettel they had the champion, but Webbers contract negotiations were always with Matechitz. Maybe this is a commercial decision, which driver fits the 'redbull gives you wings' image?

 

Don't see it that way myself - I still think that Merc have the best chassis and there is noway the McLaren is 4th!

 

McLaren have the best chassis. Just ask Eric the believable

 

The only one that is definitely in the right place is the manor, and I'd say the Haas is better than the renault

 

I actually think that's a pretty good ranking. The only possible changes i'd make would be Haas over Renault and Merc over Red Bull.

I don't see what's unrealistic about McLaren in 4th. It's a clearly a capable (albeit not world-beating) chassis, McLaren were third fastest through the last sector in Spain. Honda are still awful and holding them back a lot. I also suspect that the poor race pace is due to fuel consumption rather than tyre wear, based on how Button picked up the pace to respond to Kyvat at the end of the race.

 

I think the TR is a good little car myself