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Discussion in 'Charlton' started by Royston, Apr 1, 2016.
How will you vote on June 23rd, and why?
I am going to vote to leave for one simple reason. The benefits of the being in the EU- peace and trade, are now vastly outweighed in my opinion by the one big negative. Mass, uncontrolled, low skilled immigration. Whether you believe the figures or not, EU immigration since 2004 is put at between 2-3m. That equals cities the sizes of Manchester, Birmingham and Newcastle ! London in particular is creaking under the strain, and the signs are everywhere. A local councillor in Bromley told me last year that every GP's surgery in the borough now has at least 50 Polish or Russian families on its books, with the associated problems with translation etc. I have to start work early most mornings and there are now hundreds of Eastern Europeans beggars sleeping rough on the streets of London, not only begging but in some cases sh1tting on the pavements. What is the conceivable benefit to the UK of allowing these people here?
We are storing up huge social problems for this country and our kids futures. The trade argument is a false one, IMO. Germany will still want to sell their over valued washing machines and cars to a UK that is not in the EU...what is their alternative market? Estonia and Lithuania ? Or maybe Greece?
The whole EU project has become something not about peace and trade, but about a political union, paid for and dominated by Germany, but with the huge negative that the 25 irrelevant countries within in [Bosnia next...] can shift their problems of poor infrastructure and low wage economies onto the UK.
You forgot the 'still undecided' button. That's me. I read European Politics and Economics at university (early 90s, played a lot of rugby, hit the northern rave scene hard, did the bare minimum and scraped a Desmond - nothing to write home about). Point is I consider myself a little better informed than the average and I haven't got a Scooby what to vote. Heart says out, head says in. Suspect the head will win in the end but I certainly won't be losing any sleep if we do Brexit. I also wonder how many undecideds like me will inevitably go to the status quo and kill off the Brexit vote - I dare say enough. One thing I will say is I wonder if the Tata Steel issue gives a very real and persuasive example of how damaging and flawed an intransigent EU trade bloc can be - its certainly made me think again about status quo.
I put leave in. Not because of immigrantion argument or half the crap people are spouting.
This I view, is an opportunity to do things differently, away from the status quo. If politicians, business leaders, economists, and anyone else who thinks we can do things better on our own, negotiate better trade agreements, all for the benefit of our country rather than a collective, now is the time for so to occur.
Once in a generation vote, probably won't ever have one again, so if Britain has the capability, the desire to do so, the knowledge and belief that we can do things ourselves, then "LEAVE."
Interesting point about Tata Steel and the EU. Those voting to remain should listen to Len McCluskey's interview on Today yesterday.
Interviewer: Why can't the Govt subsidise the steel industry?"
Len: "Because of EU protection rules. It is disgraceful. The EU is killing our steel industry with these rules"
Interviewer: "How will you vote in the EU referendum Len?"
Len: "Err....to stay in the EU"
I can't actually vote, but I would vote to stay in. When you remove all the Poles and so on who are working as plumbers and electricians, you'll replace them with a lot of old gits like me and the OAP brigade from the Costa Del Sol who will be obliged to return and drain the welfare state. (I also read somewhere that there will be an immediate demand for a lot of businesses to import unskilled labour to replace the ones kicked out, so after giving these guys the heave ho, you may end up having to invite them back).
However, the whole pink rinse brigade worrying about imigration is a blind alley for me. The arguement should really be about the economics of it - would we be better or worse off in trade, and would we actually be able to go our own way, as China puts it. I read a thought provoking piece from a Norwegian minister. He pointed out that Norway is not part of the block, and can still trade with the EU. The drawback is that a lot of the trade agreements involve them having to do so under EU law, and being outside the EU, they have no say in that, so they can't really 'go their own way' except on local measures. Besides, the UK could and should be one of the major players in Brussels, but due to our seperatist stance, dating back to the days of Baroness Thatcher, we have always managed to sideline ourselves, have no real allies in the block, and usually have to negotiate apart. Any negotiatioin we make with the EU is instantly derided by the far right as a cop out, as they seem to think negotiations will always end up with us getting everything we want and yeilding nothing, which is a cheerfully innocent way of looking at things.
The EU have made many mistakes (there's a piece of legislation called the Parot Doctrine that forced Spain to let out any number of rapists, child molesters and terrorists as they wanted to limit the amount of time people can be imprisoned, regardless of what they have done or how dangerous their reléase would be to the general public) but have a look at the UK government and name one that hasn't done horrible ridiculous things. Better surely to change the institution tan to gag ourselves and continue to be ruled from Brussels without voice?
so if we brexit we kick out the unskilled foreign workers? - might be one way of getting rid of roland and katrien.
Brexit need to unify their camps and make Daniel Hannan - head and shoulders above anyone on either side - their clear leader. He then needs to explain very clearly the strategy that would be pursued in the event of leaving. That could persuade me to leave. Clear vision on what going alone means is required.
Haven't decided yet, but the thought of kicking out the unskilled workers at Charlton is a plus for Brexit.
and most of the squad too!! On that basis I'd be hugely in favor of a Brexit, but sadly there is life beyond Charlton. Besides, I confidently expect the Belgians to give up on us before they are legally required to do one (and anyway, Roland is a milionaire - they generally get to go where they want regardless of work laws)
I believe we are quite capable of running our own Country, we did it for several years before Teddy Heath decided we would be better off inside the EEC, which was at the time a co-operative of European Countries with the aim of expanding trade. Now the EU considers itself (well those overpaid gimps in Brussels do) a Superstate with Germany and the UK as paymasters and France as its leader.
A lot of people say that Turkey will never be in a position to join the EU .... but they will .... and Germany and the UK will have to pay for this both in terms of an increased financial contribution to the EU budget and a vast increase in (mostly Muslim) cheap labour into both Countries.
The UK is the second largest economy in Europe and for every £4 we export to EU Countries we import £7 ..... will the EU make the exit negotiations hard .... yes probably .... will the EU agree a mutually beneficial trading deal in the end ... they would be daft not to .. do I believe a single word that comes out of David Cameron's mouth?? .. I believe the CAFC management are more trustworthy than DC & George!
What do I believe will happen if we vote for Brexit .... as usual the EU will lose their bottle (along with Cameron Osborne) and offer a slightly better remain deal and we will have another vote in June 2017.
Keep your nerve and vote leave a second time.
Germany will crap itself thinking of having to pay for the EU on its own, I recon the whole sorry show will be over by 2025! and I for one will shed no tears.
Sparrows Lane would be empty.
I am leaning towards voting Leave. As a student of languages at university I know I'm in a minority amongst my friends, most of whom take it for granted that if you're interested in European languages then you're automatically going to be in favour of the EU. Indeed, some of them hope to work as EU interpreters and translators. Whilst I love German and Spanish culture, that doesn't mean I think it's a good idea to be in an economic and political union with two such vastly differing economies, let alone one with 28 of them.
It is interesting how often the Remain campaign seems to conflate Europe with the EU, as if we would somehow be leaving the continent of Europe if we voted out. This isn't about severing ties with what has been, is and always will be a crucial part of the world for us in terms of trade, rather it is about getting the best deal for Great Britain. And whilst it's impossible for anybody to be certain either way, I think we are better off out.
You put such faith in our own politicians who have proved so fantastic so far. None of them will control immigration how you want it. Chiefly as this government has cut,cut and cut again the very departments which should be policing the borders. Our courts will not "repatriate" people once here. The public will complain about the cost of their flat white vanilla skinny coffee things costing more as we have to pay the Brits to turn up for low paid jobs. If someone of influence can tell me what will improve for me personally if we leave I will consider a no vote but all this playing to the crowd of "give us our own destiny" means nothing. What will change for me personally.
There is one reason to vote to leave.
I will vote no on the basis that the biggest moaning set of immigrants to England (the scots) will then vote for independence and we can get a proper border in place and start deporting the ungrateful barstewards. Without having to subsidise the scots income tax for the English could be reduced by a quarter...
Couldn't careless am sooooo bored with brexit and what ever the otherwise is called borin borin borin to me
This leaflet has torn it, I am feeling strongly pro Brexit for the first time. If ever a fence sitter like me needed a reminder that this fast unravelling government is panicking and treating the electorate with contempt on many levels, this is it. What do they take us for?! Europe will not be reformed, our relationship with Europe will have a few non legally binding tweaks.
That was a rant.
Signed Pissed off from Dulwich
It is totally unacceptable for the Government to waste £9m of taxpayers cash producing a propaganda leaflet.
The case for Exit grows stronger by the day.