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Effect of Brexit

Discussion in 'Watford' started by Davylad, Mar 26, 2016.

  1. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    I don't disagree with that cologne, and yet there are many areas of rural France that have had life brought back by an influx of people from around the EU. Property has been renovated creating work for builders of all sorts, money has been pumped into the local economy because of it, and just about all of the locals who have lived their lives here see the good, rather than the belief that the country is being taken over. You might well say that someone like Nigel Lawson who has bought up a large estate here, yet doesn't engage with the locals is not the sort of person who will do anything to improve the area he lives in, yet the chances are that his chateau would have fallen down without his vast wealth. I suspect that every country within the EU has a different set of problems, and yet there is lots of flexibility within the EU structure to assist the social side as much as the trade side of the operation. If you read the reports that the EU post on the internet, (you probably do), you can see that much is done, but it seems that they are sometimes held back because they do not wish to take over the sovereign governments. Many of the programs are designed to assist areas that need an influx of money to help them prosper, and maybe you could argue that not enough is given by the richest nations of the EU to help make the poorest better places to live and work.
     
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  2. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    I agree with much of that Frenchie. The problem is that emigration often has its own dynamic and once a flow has started it is difficult to stem it. When I lived in Hamburg one of my best friends was from Ghana - he had a degree from the University of Accra in agricultural engineering yet worked as an unskilled labourer in a factory in Hamburg. I would have thought it was in Ghana's interests to keep people like him but, unfortunately, he earned more in Hamburg than a chief of police in his own country. Whenever he went back he had to go laden with gifts for an extended family (this meant expensive things for over 30 people !) why ? Because he had to put on the show that his emigration had been a success. No emigrant ever goes home and says 'it was a failure' 'I shouldn't have done it' - it's not human nature to do that. So this perpetuates the myth ie. you only have to go 'there' and everything falls into your hands. In reality I have not met an African yet who was truly happy in Europe - but do they go home and say to the others 'don't go there', I don't think so. The same is true of emigration anywhere - once it starts it has a self perpetuating dynamic of its own - it becomes a habit. So, for over a hundred years the 'real' capital of the South of Italy, or of rural Ireland, was not Naples or Dublin, but rather New York - whether it made economic sense or not.
     
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  3. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    None of this is simple. My nephew is married to a lovely lady from Ghana, and once or twice a year they travel over there to see her family. He has built a large house there with just about every luxury that you can think of installed. It was built with his money from the UK, but employed all local labour which he thought to be very cheap. It did put money into their economy, and helped to feed numerous families. The house has to be guarded as it would be stripped of many fittings without the security. Not good, but there are many who live in poverty and the social structure is not very developed. The idea of building it to this standard was that they could let it out to the various trade delegations who often visit the country. He would like to have a say in which type of trade delegation used the house as he has principles against certain trade, but as it is in the hands of a local agent that is difficult.
    It seems to me that he is doing something that helps locally, although some would say that he is making money from a cheap labour force. There are lots of very cheap schemes around the world that can help make life more tolerable for the locals and help them to stay where they are. Providing some tools or animals can be the difference between allowing people to make a living, or travelling abroad and becoming a burden on others who might seem wealthy, but in fact are struggling in a different culture.
     
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  4. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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  5. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    Found this online today - I'm not sure how old it is, but it does seem to suggest that Brexit is purely for the plebs...<grr>

    daily mail.jpg
     
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  6. J T Bodbo

    J T Bodbo Well-Known Member

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    It is extremely complicated. In the Charente, 10% of the population are British apparently. Really surprised me, AS did the observation of how few speak French which is a real shame. The pleasures of talking, however badly, to our French neighbours ( who have never moved more than 5km in their lives) is a great joy for us.The plus side clearly is the investment in property and stuff for houses bringing trade and activity. I was told (apochryful?) that all the Brico stores have appeared cos of the Brit mania for DIY. The downside is the risk of sO many upping sticks and leaving 'cos of the stupid referendum. Already property prices are very low. Helps the Dutch and Germans who are starting to come more however. As cologne says, a return drift might become a flood-probably more so in Spain, but certainly would impact on the economy in the Charente which doesn't seem all that wealthy, even with Cognac (and Pineau though perhaps not such a great asset!).
    I'm sure we wouldn't be here if we were not part of EU. Doubt we will sell though unless the arrangements are truly awful after 2019. As we come and go, it's not such a big deal.
    I have more trouble with rearranged football matches(bl!!dy sky) after I have. bOught advance train fares, agreed with Madame about times. Dinner etc. As you see U have very little to complain about-unless you want chapter and verse of living with a macerator! Life can. bE rather basic here!
     
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  7. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    Today a government spokesman said that food imports from the USA were somewhat down the line, and didn't wish to enter a discussion about Liam Fox's talks with the government over there about future trade. I am no chemist, but the article here fills me with horror.

    http://www.salon.com/2017/07/08/why...-on-a-trip-to-the-drug-store_partner_partner/

    The French government is just starting talks with the farmers over safeguarding the food supplies without use of chemicals, and good animal husbandry, but all that Fox has been talking about is making sure that products are not dumped at cheap prices, and not about the quality of the products.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  8. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    Sadly for the present Govt.... money seems to rule...
     
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  9. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    The government has been dragged before the Supreme Court again and once more been found to be acting illegally, this time over workers rights. The court found that the government was breaking both UK and EU law. Why break one when you can do two at the same time? Despite what the PM says about protecting rights after Brexit, her actions are very different.
     
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  10. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    #3550

  11. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    Final day for countries within the EU to get their bids in to relocate two agencies from London. As this article makes clear it is not just the jobs directly lost, but things like hotel stays that will no longer be required. It is little wonder that the competition is fierce.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40772332
     
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  12. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Do they know what they are bidding for? 75% of the staff at the European Medicines Agency want to remain in the UK.
     
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  13. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    I am sure that they do know what they are bidding for. Loads of jobs both at the agency and the surrounding areas that provide the services. Hotels, restaurants, coffee shops, cleaners, maintenance companies, taxis, underground, all who have staff, you can go on. It doesn't matter if staff want to stay or not, you voted to get rid of them.
     
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  14. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure the majority of staff that have expressed their preference to stay in the UK will find alternative employment in the UK. There will obviously be some job losses which will be balanced by the freedom to do free trade deals with the rest of the world. A succession of city bosses have recently rubbished the idea that many jobs will be relocated to Europe.
     
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  15. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    I have no idea where you get the idea that most do want to leave London as just over 60% of them are not Brits but from other EU countries. The 40% or so of Brits are highly paid specialists in the medicines world, and are likely to go with the job. The huge number of visitors to the agency tend to spend well, and whichever country gets the agency will benefit from that spending. You do not address the knock on effect of all the other companies and individuals that will be impacted when they leave. It is thought that any number between 3 and 10 people times outside the agency will lose work. This is actually what is happening, not some vague notion that free trade deals will replace the jobs and income for the government. I do have a good insight into the medicines agency as my son-in-law deals with them, and his American owned company shut the UK branch and moved to Brussels. The numbers involved in his company are in the dozens, but he is meeting up with others from different companies who have now moved out of the UK. The numbers start to get quite large when you add them all up, but hey, that is what you wanted.
     
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  16. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Most, 75% of the staff of the EMA have told the regulator to inform the European Parliament's Budget Committee that they want to stay in the UK. I have already said that some jobs will undoubtedly be lost, hopefully some will go to the struggling French who have an enormous unemployment problem. The attitude and employment situation in the UK gives us more flexibility and opportunities to create employment than most European countries. The UK has one of the lowest unemployment rates in Europe, I expect that to continue.
     
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  17. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    As I said before, it doesn't matter if they want to stay or not, their jobs will no longer be in London, along with thousands of others who service the agencies. That is what you wanted and have received.
     
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  18. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes, I had forgotten about all the jobs which will be created with the World market. Those thousands of new opportunities in the fracking industry. The inevitable increase in those engaged in import of all those gene manipulated products which Trump so much wants to get rid of. All those extra security staff which will be needed once the border moves to Dover. Last, but not last, the chance of building (with Chinese money) new nuclear power stations with all of that cheap Chinese steel which they are itching to dump on us. For some weird unaccountable reason you think that Britain, which was not able to assert itself against equal partners, will be able to better assert its sovereignty with the likes of the USA and China.
     
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  19. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    The loss of a few jobs is worth regaining sovereignty, control of borders etc. I see Macron is now asking for similar changes to free movement that Cameron asked for. If there had been a bit more common sense amongst the European leaders Brexit would not have happened.

    80% of UK businesses do not trade with the EU, relief of some of the restrictive red tape will create many more jobs.
     
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  20. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    Really a few jobs. No it is thousands so far. with tens of thousands to follow. You could have, and should have controlled your borders when the PM was at the Home Office, but everyone who looks at EU rules comes to the same conclusion, she failed to use the tools she had. Typical reaction of those who voted to leave, blame it on others. You see it everywhere now that things are going wrong. There are now huge delays of 90 minutes - 4 hours at many EU airports as the travelers from outside Schengen wait to have their passports scanned. I expect the Brits who are held up as they start their holidays will make the most noise. Those companies that do not trade with the EU will have to get busy as they will have to increase their sales by 60% just to cover the loss. I am sure you will be able to show exactly what red tape is holding them back.
     
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