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Off Topic Chelsea Scum (aka The UK Politics Debate Thread)

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by Sanj, Feb 18, 2015.

  1. pompeymeowth

    pompeymeowth Prepare for trouble x
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    One of the Chelsea fans is trying to distance himself from the events. Ex RUC what a surprise! Step on it Billy, we got a fockin' feenian on oour haunds!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31575913

    On the video it's clear he's the one doing most of the Bouncer work.
     
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  2. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    If you want to vote for a smaller party to shake things up then you'd be better voting Green, at least their polices make sense.
     
    #102
  3. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree. I think it's time we changed the political establishment and give people more choices, otherwise we will continue to get a disfranchised populous that will no longer be interested in politics and allow the old cronies uninterrupted licence to lead our wonderful nation.

    I want us to follow a more progressive model similarly to Finland, a multi-party system. That would keep everyone on their toes and encourage politicians to work together!
     
    #103
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  4. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    There policies are absolute nonsense in general. I disagree with the vast majority of what the greens stand for, I think they've completely missed the point.

    But I'm all for them gaining popularity as they have clear views and opinions. They don't have to be the same views as mine, I'd like several of the smaller parties to have success and a chance to influence government. My big issue is with the system we have and it will take a collective of smaller parties doing well to make any kind of change.
     
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  5. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    What exactly would you consider to be nonsense ?
     
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  6. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    Here here!

    Edit: or should that be hear, hear?
     
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  7. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    Ok, firstly the big one, environmental policy. They've got it wrong. They want us to continue to switch to renewable energy sources at the expense of other energy sources. We simply are not at that point of development yet. They want us to stop any reliance on fossil fuels, but really we should be focused on lower our reliance on foreign countries to provide our energy. We should put far more into nuclear reactors and reopen a couple of coal plants in the north of the country.

    Renewable energy is fine (depending on the type of energy, wind farms are the stupidest thing going and the corner stone of green environmental policy) as a part of the solution to energy, but to stop using fossil fuels would require huge amounts of biodiesel for a start which will push up the cost of food which is already a huge difficulty for a lot of people in this country. It's also just not cost effective to switch over like this to renewable energy.

    The solution is a combination of new coal, nuclear and renewable (not wind) energy sources.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  8. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    I also disagree massively with there policy of increased public spending and new taxes. Austerity has just about managed to tip us back towards recovery and having a party come in who wants to ramp up tax and spending is not going to help the country.
     
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  9. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    I do however agree with there stance on drug policy and brothels.
     
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  10. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    Also there ideas on the economy are a farce, communism in disguise. They want a zero growth economy, which in effect means a never ending recession with people getting consistently more poor with the idea that social responsibility will somehow make up for the economic shortfall. It's pie in the sky nonsense.

    They want to add a separate additional tax to pay for the NHS, they advocate huge increases in the benefits system, they want VAT to be based on how much environmental damage a product or service does ffs, that just isn't how to run an economy! I disagree with how they think the world can work.

    But they have the odd little gem in amongst all the nonsense. Banning religious instruction during school hours is a good move (though I disagree with them wanting to disband all schools with over 700 pupils as I think it's completely unworkable) and as I've said they've got it right on drugs and brothels :p
     
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  11. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    Then we can take a look at there military policy: pull out of NATO, end our relationship with the US and get rid of all nuclear weapons.

    So basically get rid of all of the things that keep us significant on the world stage in terms of military power. You couldn't make it up...
     
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  12. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    I basically disagree with everything you're saying about the Greens, I think their policies are the only ones that will ensure that there is social equity and a habitable planet for future generations. So I guess we're at complete opposite ends of the political spectrum, because I think UKIP are bat crazy and would run this country into the ground.
     
    #112
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  13. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    So your happy paying additional money for the NHS which is what the Greens propose, despite trying to have a go at UKIP over the supposed charging to see a GP? (Which as it turns out isn't true).

    Also whether you disagree or not doesn't change the fact that we would have to reach ridiculous record levels of public spending to achieve what the greens want (according to the party themselves) aka it doesn't work in reality.

    I like that there are people pushing for sustainability, thinking about the future of the planet, trying to come up with alternate ways for society to work than the one we have settled into. I think it's noble and could have a real benefit to our political system. But I do think most of it is unworkable.

    I think as a system we need more small parties of various view points, that's the whole point!
     
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  14. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    I'm definitely for more money being spent on the NHS, but I don't think people should pay to see their GP etc, I think it should be raised from Taxation on corporations (some of the £30bn dodged by corporations would help)

    In terms of environment, we're at the stage now as where we have little choice but to introduce radical change, because the path we're on is already having a detrimental effect on the planet and it will get worse. The implications for this basically outstrip anything else because if we can't grow food or drink the water on the planet then we're royally ****ed.

    I do agree that the political system needs a big shake up and that smaller parties being better represented in a good thing. There's probably a place for both UKIP and the Greens in Parliament
     
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  15. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    I agree there's a lovely pot of money waiting for a government to have the bollocks to take it from the tax dodgers!

    The greens advocate a new tax though to pay for the NHS, which would cost people far more than a one off fee to see there GP (though I agree no-one should have to pay to see a GP). This may be a route other parties start to look at though, despite being unpopular to talk about, we do need to find new ways to fund the NHS as the population grows.

    As for the environment, nothing we do in the UK is going to make the slightest difference when countries like India, Brazil and China are going through there equivalent to the industrial revolution. We are better off creating energy policy based on supplying more of our energy ourselves rather than relying on foreign countries often run by regimes we don't agree with. I feel being energy independant would allow us to be far more candid in our approach to some of these countries and there human rights abuses which would have more of a benefit to humanity in general than the very small reduction in the increase to fossil fuel consumption that we'd see from the UK moving from fossil fuels. Until the new big nations are ready to look at changing (and America for that matter who repeatedly fail to reach environmental targets) then it's a pointless exercise.

    I also think we have a long, long way to go before we have ****ed the planet to the point of not having any food or water left!

    And finally yep, I agree, I think there is a place for both UKIP and the Greens in UK politics and hopefully a couple of other small parties will emerge. There is nothing I'd love more than a situation come May where there are multiple possible governments!
     
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  16. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    But Piskie does make a point, unless we start looking at the environment more seriously now, the following generations will inherit a bag full of problems. We are suppose to be in peace time yet we are spending more and more on armaments every year. The United States, the supposed most powerful nation on the planet is spending most of their money on military and military related affairs. Why not use some of the military expenditure on finding an alternative energy source? When you look at the majority of problems worldwide, they are mostly about oil or resource related issues.

    We as the majority, need to work together to change things, expecting the current ruling establishment and big business to, simply will not happen.
     
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  17. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree the US spend far too much on there military, astronomical amounts.

    I don't think the world is as stable as we'd all like to think and I do feel that there is a need for continued military spending and maintaining an active and well equipped military. But certain countries, like the US, really over do it.

    You then raise a very good point, why not search for the holy grail of energy? An alternate source of energy to replace fossil fuels that won't **** the environment. Well, we already know what that is, nuclear fusion, the power of a sun. We are already able to create the reaction and sustain it for around a minute. So far this isn't much use to us in terms of gathering energy, however should we manage to push further forward in this field it has the potential to provide unlimited energy and a new era for humans.

    Trying to achieve nuclear fusion for me is the be all and end all of human existence, solve it and we will have the ability to solve loads of the worlds problems and the environment will be saved in one swoop. Both Brian Cox and Stephen Hawking agree!

    At the moment there is an American project and a European project working on it, both of which received a few billion in funding in recent years. For me all funding for future energy sources should be going towards this, it makes wind turbines look like a school project!
     
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  18. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    If you look at some countries affected by either drought or flood, then the ability to grow food and drink water is already a major problem.

    In fact California, the richest state in the richest country in the world is currently in severe drought. This is because California relies on ice melt from the mountains to replenish their reservoirs and global warming is reducing capacity.

    And in the UK, the current Govt approach to securing energy independence is Fracking <doh> proven to pollute the water table.

    The current approach to energy production and consumption is completely skewed. We should be using less and generating ALL of it from renewables. As for wind power, I don't know what UKIP's claims are but there is enough energy potential from wind alone to power the UK's energy needs 3x over.
     
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  19. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    My stance on wind farms is my own, as I've said I'm not a supporter of any particular party and vote depending on the current election. I have plenty of views that don't match with them.

    Wind farms are inefficient, kill birds, ruin beautiful countryside and seaside views, are not cost effective compared to alternatives and tend to be placed on rich land owners property creating easy wealth for the already rich, subsidised by the EU in the name of clean energy. Bit of a personal vendetta of mine :p down with the wind farms!

    Also switching to ALL renewable energy just isn't a possibility right now. All vehicles would need to be modified, all generators and current setups would need to be adjusted at a huge cost. Farmers would switch to produce for biodiesel due to the new increase in demand and surge in price as this is now the only option for cars other than the expensive to extract hydrogen. Meaning a huge spike in food prices, huge spike in energy prices and generally more difficult life for the average person. As we have seen with the USA and there attempts to push biodiesel.

    In the short term as a country we would benefit massively from re opening a couple of coal power plants and relying more heavily on nuclear power. Switching over to renewable energy sources is something that has to be done on a global scale or it is totally pointless. And it is something that will take years of slowly phasing in to replace current energy sources. Trying to rush it will just **** our country more and not save the world.

    Either way if we have any sense about us as a race we will crack fusion by then and none of it will be a problem ;)
     
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  20. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    I tend to agree that renewables need to be introduced gradually, you can't change the dependency on fossil fuels overnight.

    On the issue of wind farms, there are some really good offshore projects in the north sea, and don't impact in the same way that onshore farms do. I agree that it doesn't make sense to give rich landowners more money to divert land away from growing food to produce energy,

    At the heart of this issue is our over consumption, rather than the ability to produce.
     
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