Big Sam - England Manager

Klinsmann is dire - he would be Hodgeson lite as he has his favourites that he always picks at the expense of those in form.

As for any other international manager, I would have loved a nutter like Beisa managing but the FA accountants wouldn't have picked him and the only other available manager of note is LvG...

I do agree with you about our players - we don't have anyone world class so having an industrial manager that picks a team might do the job.

I personally expect bugger all from England so if they play long ball to the big bugger up front I won't care as long as they are winning games, I won't do a West Ham an moan about "playing the England way" and our historical achievements that happened before I was born.

 

Apparently Sunderland are poised to replace Big Sam with Moyes within a minute of the England manager appointment being announced.

So it is looking that the black cats are getting a better manager. Despite trying to screw the FA for £2m as compensation.

Moyes will be perfect for them. Just not good for United

 

The trouble is they won't win playing that way, that's the point.

It's naive to think England's problems over the last 15 years were down to picking the wrong players, it's not as simple as that. It's about getting players to play their natural game... you know, the way they play for 38 games in a season. Our footballers' biggest problem at international level is a lack of confidence and that is largely down to England managers getting them to play at a lower standard of football, one-dimensional rubbish that doesn't bring out the best in them.

I agree they're not world class, but they're decent to very good, and clearly are underachieving otherwise why sack Hodgson?? These players are capable of at least getting to a final, and we need a manager who is capable of doing that, not someone who's worked with mediocre players for most of his career and fought relegation battles.

It's simple, lets not argue, just keep watching what happens.

 

I agree with the first part of your post that what Wales have is exactly what is missing in England. Pound for pound, England has far better players than Wales, yet they are void of spirit and losing mentality has been a disease within the core. Heck, not even a psychologist could cure them of this disease.

However, I don't think Big Sam is what would get England back on track. I don't see the fighting spirit coming from Big Sam other than the same rhetorics we had from his predecessor. Granted, I expect Big Sam to have more balls to not play unfit players in a major tournament. But the losing mentality will remain. I think England should have given the younger managers a shot. They would have more spirit in them to put up a fight.

 

I agree with what you are saying but I do have to say that picking the wrong players is what done Hodgeson in - I'm not saying that we would have won the Euros or anything but picking Drinkwater over the unfit Wilshire or unused Barkley would have meant that we had a player in form that can pass from deep and take corners/free kicks. He also based his team around Spurs players - all of whose confidence what knocked after bottling the end of the season. The only real leader that he picked was Rooney who's leadership consists of shouting which was the last thing these players needed.

Also as I've been told many times by Spurs fans, Leicester are a 1 dimensional side that play a low standard of football but we won the league last season. There is a lot more to it then that but there is an element of truth - we played a simple system where everyone knew their roles and were played to their strengths. Some players strengths were really strong like Mahrez, Vardy and Kante but even our "lesser" players excelled like Simpson.

This is what I believe we need to do with England - play a simple system that everyone knows and fit round pegs into round holes. If that means that we play long ball then so be it - Hodgeson won every qualifying game with the same system yet drastically changed it in the Euros confusing everybody.

 

Hodgson could've picked Drinkwater, he could've used Barkley, he could've brought another winger. All of that's a given. But beyond that, did anyone expect Hodgson to mold the team into a side that could've beaten Italy or Germany or France or Croatia? Picking the right team is only part of the job. If it was as simple as that, why don't you and I (and everyone on this forum who said exactly what you have about the players picked) do it? Because there has to be a degree of tactical nouse, an ability to utilise the technical side of the players you have. I disagree that Leicester were one dimensional with players like Mahrez, Drinkwater and Kante. But even IF we accept that point, it's a one off mate, NOT the norm. Why not try and go for the norm?

You make playing long balls sound like an automatic winning formula. It's not, it's desparate football. If it works, it will be 10% of the time. What about teams it won't work against?

It's simple, if Allardyce wasn't English how would you feel with his appointment? Desperately underwhelmed I'm sure. Being English doesn't absolve him of that. IF we had an English manager at around the level of Fergie, Jose, Pep, Ancelotti etc and you were asking me, should we go for him or those names I've just listed, I'd be with you 100% lets go for the English manager. But picking him regardless of his ability, first and foremost because he's English makes no sense. He was not even good enough to be shortlisted when Hodgson got the job, but now he is? What changed?

 

That's not really true. He took Bolton from 1st division to challenging for Europe, survival was nothing but a bridge to success there, and he didn't play route one football for the most part, it's just bitterness from the likes of Wenger and Benitez that has spun that lie. He also had Newcastle and Blackburn safe in mid table before their owners decided they'd prefer life in the Championship.

The simple fact is that he has overachieved when compared to his contemporaries at pretty much every club he has been at. Either he has taken a team from a lower level, which is where England are at the moment, to competing with the best, or he has already competed with the best and once he left his successor then takes the club down to a lower level.

Maybe he won't overachieve enough with England to win anything, but then I don't think there is a manager in the world who could win an international trophy with our current players. At least Allardyce won't be too scared of his own shadow to at least try to achieve something, and won't pass that fear on to the players.

 

But we have no foreign managers around the level of those four who are available and interested in the job. We're essentially a late 90s era Liverpool at the moment, forced to look for an English manager because no one is really interested in taking over our train wreck until we can find a bit of stability.

Who would you have as England manager, out of the candidates who would realistically be interested in taking the job?

 

I've covered his time at Bolton in an earlier post. It was physical, cynical and route one for the most part. Allardyce is very good at what he does, nobody is knocking that. The trouble is what he does, isn't going to be suitable for any international tournament.

I disagree with the last part, I believe we have players who are capable of winning an international trophy. The reason our players appear scared of their own shadow is because they're often asked to play a brand of football alien to them. In a way very similar to LVG at United. Our best English players are capable of playing better, they demonstrate that in the league week in week out. The problem is we have England managers who get them playing within themselves, both tactically and technically. That won't change under Allardyce. You don't achieve that by simply sticking a rocket up a player's arse. That's not all that Mourinho will be doing with our (United's) players now he's taken over.

 

The reality is that the most talented managers don't go for their national teams. First they don't have the same day to day involvement as they would for a club, then the pay is not that good as for a big club.

Most managers consider taking up the national team post after a long career. Their experience of club management will help them. I think the England job has come at the right time for Big Sam and I think he'll do well.

 

No we don't but they're still better than any English manager available, which was what I was getting at. I was simply making the point if everything was equal, and I had the choice, I'd go for an English manager. But the reality is, if Allardyce wasn't English, nobody would touch him with a barge pole for the England job. There are however, managers who are more experienced in bringing out the best technically and tactically to the standard required. These include Hiddink, De Boer, Laudrup, Bielsa off the top of my head who are all better than Allardyce and more suitable, and all available.

 

Have they ever done it with 3 days training every couple of months?

 

Hiddink and Bielsa have. But then, neither has Allardyce. All things being equal, they're all still better than him.

Once Allardyce fails, who will we go for next, Alan Curbishley?

 

I wouldn't even consider any of those even if they were willing to take the job. This is the national job. We need an experienced manager who knows the players but also the managers he has to deal with. He would know how the operate and what can and can't be done. I honestly do not think we need a highly technical coach like the ones mentioned.

Like I said earlier, the greatest asset of the England manager is having the passion for the team to do well and to get the most of the players at his disposal for a relatively short time. It is as much about diplomacy and experience of English football as technical ability.

 

What experience? Which players does he know... the ones managed by foreign managers at club level? Explain how he knows how they operate and what can and can't be done?

English = passion. Like Hodgson? McClaren? The likes of Venables and Robson didn't just succeed through passion alone, they were tactically and technically aware of how to get the best out of the players they had. Passion is overrated on its own.

 

The England mangers job is a poison chalice, the only managers that are likely to be interested are those near the end of their careers. Sam is a very good choice imho and may just surprise you (I hope).

I seem to remember the best manager I have ever seen failed to produce on the international stage, all be it with another mans squad.
I will re-assess Sam after his first few friendly's when I have seen his squad and how he sets them up.

 

He has been a manager in the premiership for many years. Surely this counts for something. And although he has not managed the likes of United, City or Arsenal he has dealt with some good players. Managing a national team where players only come for a few weeks at a time and then get back to their clubs is a different proposition to managing a club. I would love England to do well. And I think we have a better chance with Big Sam than with any of the fancied foreigners you mention.

I honestly don't think having a foreign manager (capello, Erikson) coaching and managing England has worked. Big sam won't be as bad as Hodgson and would have learnt from the recent debacle. I honestly cannot work out what Hodgson has done which could not have been done by any decent manager in the country. He's been a fraud, picking up millions for doing absolutely nothing.

 

Hold on.. but he's English and has been a manager in the premiership for many years. Surely this counts for something. And although he has not managed the likes of United, City or Arsenal he has dealt with some good players

 

I would think/hope that any manager who has managed in the Pl for as long as Sam would know a fair bit about the players in the league (and the leagues below), he would have had to spend time getting to know which players would fit his team, how to nullify opposition players and a few other things that may just be a part of managing a football team.

Robson was so tactically and technically aware that his managerial career lasted about 5mins compared to Sam's .

 

It's straw clutching I'm afraid. Experience of the PL is one thing, knowing players and working with them is another. Hiddink has plenty of experience of the PL, as does Pulis and Van Gaal btw.

I was talking about Bobby Robson ffs Diego