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THE RESULTS... Neither strong nor stable

Discussion in 'Watford' started by yorkshirehornet, Jun 8, 2017.

  1. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    The Queen making her speech today. Her hat seems to suggest that she's making two political statements at the same time... <laugh>

    Capture.JPG
     
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  2. Cornish Mark

    Cornish Mark Well-Known Member

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    I was wondering if she was going home to change before going horse racing this afternoon.
     
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  3. Mexican Hornet

    Mexican Hornet Well-Known Member

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    Thought she´d miss her native Germany.
     
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  4. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-inside-the-secretive-tory-election-call-centre

    More dirty deeds from Tory Central during the election campaign coming to light - deeds that 'may' have broken both data protection and election laws. How much longer can they survive?

    With Theresa May struggling to justify her position, and her ready-made-replacement delivering this catastrophic interview today http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ash-unable-answer-questions-bbc-a7801936.html - I can't see that they'll be in power for too much longer.
     
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  5. J T Bodbo

    J T Bodbo Well-Known Member

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    Why be surprised? Deceipt and contempt are the Tories stock in trade. It would be interesting to see how the parties worked if each (i.e. Any party with an MP) was given the same amount of money for political purposes and the insidious donations system was abolished. After all, why should I have more influence over the governments policy on ratcatching if I can afford to join a fancy dinner party because I want to discuss the rules on fruit picking? That's how it works (sorry, should have read That's how it stinks).
     
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  6. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    car crash interview from BoJo eh...

    I dont think he has diabetes....
     
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  7. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    Yesterday was a prime example of the dishonest campaign that the PM tried to run. She tried to make out that she would negotiate with the EU, and how much better she would be than Corbyn. After presenting her offer last night for EU citizens in the UK, there was no negotiation at all. They took note of what she said, and passed the information on to their team who will discuss it next week.
     
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  8. Jennings60s

    Jennings60s Active Member

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    This is just an observation not a criticism. Have a count back to see when someone on here (perhaps excepting SH who seems to have gone for now) posted anything other than an anti government or anti Tory post. You could do the same on any non football thread whether it is thought for the day, Friday afternoon, brexit and so forth. Do none of you understand why some people mourn a give and take debate with people posting both for and against issues. I am not quite sure how it can be. Recently 1 million more ordinary people voted for the Tory party than for the Labour party. They are people like you and me not rich bankers all and yet everything here implies the Tories are wicked, lying, unfeeling rogues. Why does this forum not attract a variety of opinion? Other Watford forums seem very much more balanced. From responses to w_y nobody seems bothered so I guess it's fine even if to a casual observer it gets boring. As I say - just an observation.
     
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  9. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    If you join a closed forum you will only see comments that are broadly in line with what you want to see. This forum is not closed and anyone can have their say. There is little that the site can do about it if the government of the day, whatever party, leaves itself open to charges of failure, and there are not people wishing to defend them.
    As one of those who did not vote for either the Tory or Labour party, I am one of those who would like to see something totally different, which I admit is not on offer. All I can say for me, I am glad to see that neither party commands the support of the country as a whole and with the country facing a crisis in many ways, maybe MPs who represent you and me will make their voices heard.
     
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  10. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't actually surprised - more a case of being pissed off that they a) treat the country with contempt by doing it & b) seem to have the clout to do it then sweep it under the carpet when found out.
     
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  11. Jennings60s

    Jennings60s Active Member

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    That is what I was trying to say - this forum is open to everyone - more people voted Tory than for other parties so how is it that this forum is only left with people who post against the Tories? Is there something about this forum that means people who voted Tory - the greater number in the country at large - do not join in? I know nobody will have an answer as it is up to people to post what they want and you cannot "force" a good balanced debate. But boy does it get tiresome to find one post after another saying more or less the same thing. It is like listening to a radio station where they play only one band.
     
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  12. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    Ed I did welcome w_y back who had been a good 'friend' on this message board back to the BBC days... I also invited him to dialogue etc etc. I would welcome him back Anytime.

    I also have appreciated your move to create more debate.

    I voted neither labour or Tory... and have actually had a bit of a spat with the newly elected MP here who is a Labour guy who beat the Libdem MP..

    I myself have major problems with the ideology and practice of the current Government and those who voted Brexit... For all the reasons I have stated in my posts.

    I find it reassuring that others here have similar views. I think the fabric of our society is being unpicked.. And i find that very Worrying
    Let's keep talking and see where it takes us...
     
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  13. canary-dave

    canary-dave Well-Known Member

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    The one thing that angers me above everything else is being accused of voting to leave because of immigration! <steam>

    I did vote to leave and would do so again, simply to regain our sovereignty and not answerable to laws passed by someone I had not voted for and who has no connection to the UK <ok>
     
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  14. J T Bodbo

    J T Bodbo Well-Known Member

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    I
    I implore anyone who voted 'leavel in order to 'regain our sovereignty ' to read the book 'Fantasy Island' by Conor Gearty.
     
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  15. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    I'm not really sure what this BBC reporter was expecting when he asked his question...

     
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  16. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Dave but the most 'sovereign' nation on this planet is North Korea, all others are subject to international agreements, whether economic or political, or to do with human rights. Leaving the EU. would involve Britain being subject to more international agreements than before. Because they would have to compensate for lost European trade by signing other trade agreements - which, as a single nation, would not be under the favourable conditions we currently enjoy. I whole heartedly agree that not all Brexit voters did so because of immigration - there was a whole myriad of possible reasons. There was also a hard left wing case for Brexit (which got no airing on here) or how was it possible for people like George Galloway and Arthur Scargill to also be Brexiters. The fact is that a possible future Labour policy of extensive renationalization could run up against problems with EU membership. If I thought that a post Brexit Britain would be a self sufficient island with communal ownership of the means of production I would be a Brexiter too - but that wouldn't be the case - rather a TTIP friendly, offshore tax haven, bargain basement society involved in a race to the bottom to attract investors - there is precious little sovereignty in that.
     
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  17. Jennings60s

    Jennings60s Active Member

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    Yorkie - you, like just about everyone else on here seem to be very nice people - and intelligent too. That isn't really what I was commenting on though. I just like a good debate with several people on each side making points and having them countered. I just do not see this here. Never mind - most people seem happy so what's the problem?
    Personally I think brexit broke the UK and it can never be fixed. I see nastiness increasing and people justifying being horrible to each other and blaming anyone and everything for all that happens. We appear to have imported the American culture of always finding someone to sue for things that happen. Nobody respects others who have different opinions any more but accuse them of whatever. Our society has become nasty and I despair of it ever being mended. I see this forum a bit as a microcosm of that. We do not try to see the Tories as people who actually want a better society for everyone but perhaps are misguided - no they are evil people who only seek to benefit their friends and want to harm disabled or poor people. I could go on but is it worth it? I don't think so. They say we get the government we deserve - perhaps it is the same with forums.
     
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  18. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    Ed, I would take it for granted that most of us want the same thing in the end. A society with 'hope' for the young, 'security' for the old and justness and transparency for those in between. A place where people who really do work can reap the rewards - but not where people are judged on that alone. A place where people are able to walk the streets in safety, and do not need scapegoats for their own weaknesses. I could add a lot more here, but I think that as long as the goal is the same then we can tolerate that other people have different means to attaining that goal. As you say Tories are people - in my family we have had Tories, Labourites, Liberals, one SNP follower and an Anarcho Communist, but I like to think we are all/have been, people. If we were all stuck on a desert island somewhere our political differences wouldn't be a theme.
     
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  19. Jennings60s

    Jennings60s Active Member

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    Bravo - but do you think this forum reflects that? The Tories seem to be our Luton - we hate them, nothing they do will ever be good, nobody will ever praise something they do even if it is good. As I say it does not matter - but are we really satisfied in telling ourselves how bad and evil they are and can we be surprised if nobody wants to step up and make their case?
    I have bored myself now with these several posts so will let others reflect on how interesting they find debates here.
     
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  20. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    The country sold it's sovereignty, it wasn't taken away by the EU or anyone else. As this article shows the country relies on electricity from France, water from Germany, airports on Spain.
    http://www.spiegel.de/international...it-at-the-hands-of-theresa-may-a-1152330.html

    I agree with Ed that Brexit has broken the country. It has to be one of the most ridiculous decisions ever made by a politician to try and shore up his position.

    Yesterday afternoon, too hot for anything else, I watched the debate in the Commons. There were three outstanding speeches. The first was from the new MP for Kensington. A speech from the heart about the people who had voted for her, and how she was doing her best to fight her way through the lack of action by the council and government.
    The second was from the new SNP leader. If you didn't understand how Brexit would have effects on Scotland, he set out his case without drama, answered questions from other MPs, and showed that what might be good for London might be bad for north of the border.
    The third was from Ken Clarke who spoke for 40 minutes and asked why we thought we would be better outside of the biggest free market in the world. He was so reasoned that when he finished he was acclaimed from all sides of the house.

    In the past I knew Tory MPs; Michael Heseltine was a neighbour, and without exception they were all doing their bit to look after the interests of the whole population. A one nation Tory party made sense to me, and I was happy to support it, but as the saying goes, I didn't leave them, they left me.

    Today I find that there is a strange feeling in the country. The three speeches I mentioned did not try to score party points, they all made decent arguments to support their point of view, and tried to influence other MPs to see their answer to the way forward. The press of course do not find that sensible as it is not dramatic enough to sell papers.

    Is there a way forward? That has to be the most difficult question to find an answer to. I have watched as our centrist President has come from nowhere, and is pulling people from centre left and right together. Maybe somewhere in the UK there is a Macron in waiting, but I do not see him.
     
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