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More terror attacks in London

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by Tol3, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. Sheikh_of_Araby

    Sheikh_of_Araby Well-Known Member

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    Phobia - Irrational fear

    Islamophobia - a term created by idiots to label anyone that disagrees with their sanguine view of the world.

    You cannot have an irrational fear of Islam ffs.

    I see Piers Morgan laid into Tommy Robinson this morning. I am no fan of Robinson's, but his gripe with Finsbury Mosque's history of extremism is valid. That still doesn't excuse the **** that carried out the terrorist attack there.
     
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  2. haslam

    haslam Well-Known Member

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    Time and a place though, having gripes about a Mosque is fine but bringing it up in the immediate aftermath just comes across as a scumbag pushing an agenda to me (and I'd usually support anyone who Peirs Morgan has attacked as Morgan is a grade A prick). When the stabbing happened outside Parliament no paper was reporting "white van driver kills people outside the place where governments ordered pogroms against Jews, mass slavery, destruction of nations, invention of concentration camps and Crusading massacres of innocents". Once you start throwing in things like that it feeds the underlying implication that these people weren't innocent or had it coming.
     
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  3. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree that the word doesn't quite fit but what should the word be Windy? I think people use it to describe intolerance and ignorance of Islam, and targeted abuse of Muslims, so what would the right word be, if one exists?
     
    #23
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  4. Delusional Full Stop

    Delusional Full Stop Here to serve all your counselling needs.
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    Perhaps the words could be ignorant, intolerant bigotry.
     
    #24
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  5. Sheikh_of_Araby

    Sheikh_of_Araby Well-Known Member

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    Don't dispute that at all. Pretty daft to mention it straight after what happened hence why I am not a fan. I think Piers Morgan is just as bad sometimes though
     
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  6. Sheikh_of_Araby

    Sheikh_of_Araby Well-Known Member

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    Exactly this. Ignorant, bigot, twat, ****. Plenty of those around. Islam isn't an issue. It's the minority that practice certain interpretations of it. Ignorance and bigotry comes from a lack of education/ understanding about the differences between moderate sunni's and extremist wahabi's [and other sects.]
     
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  7. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    Bigotry or ignorance as words aren't sufficient in the context of abuse, etc being targeted at Muslims specifically which is why you can understand why people use this Islamophobia term in place of no better word. The English language fails us here so I'm not getting hung up people using it - I know what people are referring to when they say it.
     
    #27
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  8. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    https://lawyerssecularsociety.wordpress.com/2015/03/03/islamophobia-an-absurd-term/

    This is the bit that concerns me. You might be intelligent enough to do so, but you are probably in a minority in the grand scheme of things. This link I posted earlier in the thread sums up my feeling on the use of this word - it is absurd. It is not required.

    As I said to Freddd, if people could be relied upon to use the word as it was originally intended then I could maybe make a tenuous case for the word. They have shown they can't though. If somebody is bigoted towards Muslim people, then that is what they are. By using these all encompassing words which can be interpreted in different ways, all you do is lump people who don't deserve to be in with a bunch of bigots. To me that is too convenient for those with evil motives who abuse these religions.
     
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  9. Freddd

    Freddd Well-Known Member

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    Not that what I think matters but it strikes me as a fairly good word. There is a chunk of the population which regards Islam as a international conspiracy to establish a caliphate by violent means, with muslims being the conspirators. I regard that as a fairly irrational fear of islam and muslims. Not sure what better word you could come up with than islamophobia.

    I do take your point that people misuse the word, perhaps deliberately, as a means of deflecting any criticism of Islam or muslims. People use anti-semeticism in the same way to try to preclude criticism of, say, occupation of the West Bank. The fact that the word is misused doesn't mean that the word itself doesn't have a proper meaning. With respect to the Finsbury Park attack, I would be surprised if the perpetrator wasn't islamophobic
     
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  10. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    On the subject of bigotry, I have to say I struggle with some peoples complaints. If you are going to complain about bigotry against your community (be that Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Race, Gay etc), then please ensure you are not a bigot yourself first. Or at least not a an extreme one. I mean I know a lot of people (probably myself included) who have used language and terms that could be considered mildly bigoted. However there is a big jump to being anti LGBT, anti muslim, anti black people etc. Where you hold these views then I'm afraid your complaints are somewhat hollow.

    I've experienced a lot of bigotry when discussing religion with people of all different religions.I had it with a devout Christian on Saturday night who considered homosexuality a sin. I've had it with followers of Islam and probably just about every religion. I find it somewhat laughable that people who present themselves as representatives of these religions bang on about the bigotry they suffer. Yet they have chosen to interpret their religions as one which teaches bigotry (anti gay sentiments and so on), however they feel they should not have to face the same criticism because that is their religion. What? Forgive me I don't understand, to me you're a bigoted moron.

    There is an argument within the islamic community on the subject of LGBT. Some think the Quran does not explicitly address the subject and therefore it is not a sin. Obviously in some countries around the world, the teaching is of a very bigoted sentiment.

    Sorry my inner atheist felt the need to spout off <laugh>
     
    #30
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  11. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    I do take your point and agree to certain extent. I just think in the case of this word that meaning as I assume its truly meant has now been diluted so far, its completely meaningless. I can't see any need for it really. We don't bother with Christianophobia etc because its such a ridiculous word - yet there is plenty of of anti christian bigotry in the world.

    I'm not sure why everything to do with islam seems to be so exaggerated.
     
    #31
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