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Effect of Brexit

Discussion in 'Watford' started by Davylad, Mar 26, 2016.

  1. Jsybarry

    Jsybarry Well-Known Member

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    Earlier this week, there was a story on the local radio station that getting a deal for the Crown Dependency Territories and British Overseas Territories was being considered. The main focus of that was rights for EU nationals living in those areas, and vice versa. Depending on the outcome, this could potentially affect my ex-father-in-law, who lives in the Charente Maritime and has a business running gites that are on-site.

    Sorry for the plug, but if anyone wants to consider going there for a break, send me a PM and I'll send you the link to his website. He is about an hour drive from both Bordeaux and La Rochelle airports.
     
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  2. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget to put your clocks forward an hour tomorrow morning.


    And then back 60 years on Wednesday... :(
     
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  3. hornethologist a.k.a. theo

    hornethologist a.k.a. theo Well-Known Member

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    It has as much meaning as saying a dog is a dog. The people do not have a collective will; they are individuals. The fact that people intend the phrase to refer to something does not make it meaningful. My comments have nothing to do with whether you like or dislike the result but with the imprecise use of language. It's a character in 'Alice in Wonderland' who says a word means what he chooses it to mean, as with your apparent understanding of straightforward and ambiguity.
     
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  4. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    Your 'exercise in democracy' goes according to the following equation - 25% of the electorate vote Tory = majority, majority equals referendum, referendum = 36% of the electorate actually vote for something = winner takes all, and everyone who raises a question as to the destination is cast as a moaner. It showed that the will of the people was either against Brexit, or were non voters (which, in itself, means an inclination towards 'no change'). Your version of democracy has many flaws to it SH. Democracy also means working for a consensus which is to the benefit of all voters, and also allowing for a possible change of mind. Your idea of 'the will of the people' is more like that of Robespierre - ie. the will of the people can never be wrong, as if written in stone.
     
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  5. Hornet-Fez

    Hornet-Fez Well-Known Member

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    Indeedy. As I've said previously: that a democratic process has been followed is not open to question; that democracy has been served, most certainly is. The process was started to save the Tory party; it will finish by wrecking the Union and the countries in it.
     
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  6. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    I'm currently holidaying in Sorrento celebrating the 60th anniversary of the birth of the EU with my fellow Europeans. I will also drink tonight in honour of 'Freedom Day' next Wednesday when we begin to escape this failed political experiment that has gone so horribly wrong.
     
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  7. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    The mistake you making is trying to put your own interpretation on the word Brexit. It simply means leaving the EU without any added qualification.
     
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  8. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    This 'failed political experiment' which has become the most successfull trading block in the World, you mean, and has helped keep the peace in Europe for 70 years. Which has brought people together - secured workers rights, and is also the reason why you are in Sorrento now without a Visa and talking to other Europeans who have taken the trouble to learn your language. The problem appears to be that the British did not understand the EU from the beginning - it began as an economic union but was always intended to be a political one, and that was clear right from the beginning. Remember - the first person to ever coin the phrase 'United States of Europe' was none other than Winston Churchill.
     
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  9. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Winston Churchill would have been horrified at the political direction of the EU in recent years, also the domination of the German nation over other European nations. His original idea was for a free trading block where all benifitted, a long way from the financial mess inflicted on several Southern European EU members. Just been speaking to a head waiter who was moaning about the lack of work opportunities and salaries in Italy compared to his time working in London. His answer to Euroland's problems was even more EU intergration but he also admitted it would not happen. It just about sums up the EU' s unsolvable situation.
     
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  10. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    Where do you get this idea of German domination from SH. or have you been reading too many old war comics ? The country has a population of just under 80 million (decreasing !) and its votes in the EU parliament are proportional to that - ie. they could be outvoted by just France, Belgium and the Netherlands combined. They have even less influence now because Britain normally voted in the same way as Germany. Winston Churchill would not have been at all horrified at German success - it was always a part of the post war plan that the former West Germany would become the most powerfull west European nation (the Americans wanted just that as a buffer against Communism) - Germany has simply carried on from that. I agree that Germany is a problem, but not in the way you mean it. It is a problem because the biggest EU. nation has an imbalanced economy ie. they export 30% more than they import - as a side effect of this German domestic spending power has stagnated and it is not fulfilling the role of the biggest market in Europe, which it should be doing.
     
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  11. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    You must be in a minority of one who fails to recognise the political and financial stranglehold that Germany has in the EU. They use the incompetence of indebted Southern European EU members to keep the Euro relatively weak to allow German exports to be more competitive. Merkel's open door policy to solve it's own labour shortage angered many fellow member countries and lead to thousands of miles of new fencing. Merkel's intransigence also created Brexit when a relatively small rule change, to assist all members, could have produced a different result.

    Trump is absolutely correct in demanding Germany pays its way regarding its own defence through NATO.
     
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  12. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    Are you really living in cloud cuckoo land ? If Germany has emerged as a leading nation within the EU. it is for one reason, namely the absolute inability of Britain and France to work together. Is it absolutely beyond your comprehension to allow that Merkel may, just, have initially favoured an open door policy for humanitarian reasons - namely to relieve a dangerous bottleneck which had developed in the Balkans ? Why do you always presume that others always have sinister motives ? If the Hungarian police had started shooting at the numbers of refugees accumulating in Budapest would that, also, have been Germany's fault (because that was the place most of them wanted to reach) ? They were people who needed help - and Germany gave it. Also, what is the relatively small rule change you referred to at the end ? On the subject of freedom of movement - I need to remind you that Britain accepted thousands of migrants from Poland, Rumania etc. long before anyone else did - they then had the 'open door policy' at a time when other countries wanted a more transitional approach.
     
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  13. hornethologist a.k.a. theo

    hornethologist a.k.a. theo Well-Known Member

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    I make no mistake at all. I did not anywhere attempt to define or interpret Brexit. Your response illustrates my point very well though, though I doubt if you're capable of understanding why.
     
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  14. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Too many 'thoughs' for my liking.
     
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  15. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Theresa May has valiantly tried to make the message of Brexit as simple as possible but there are still those that fail to understand the concept. Brexit means Brexit.
    These unfortunately include the leaders of tiny minority parties in the U.K including Tim Farron, Caroline Lucus and the other joint leader nobody has heard of. They obviously distrust the electorate or hope they will awake to a different decision.

    I will be celebrating on Wednesday, Freedom or Independence Day with a glass of the local Sorrento tipple, limoncello. I will also be advising the locals to support any party that advocates ditching the disastrous euro so they will have some hope for the future.
     
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  16. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    I take it that you will be advising the locals in English (or do you speak Italian ?) - in which case they may not understand any more, with English no longer being an official EU language ! By the way it's Caroline Lucas (not Lucus). Brexit may mean Brexit - but we have no idea what 'Nexit' will be ie. what the results of negotiations will be, whether a 'half way house' is possible or not, and the people have as much right to vote on these as they had to vote in the referendum itself. Even among Brexiters there was no clear picture as to what the 'destination of the journey' would be.
     
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  17. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    The UK government has already ruled out a referendum on the final deal. Those crowing for the supremacy of parliament will be pleased both chambers will have a take it or leave it option on the terms. You need to trust that Dave boy gets a better deal than Dave boy Cameron managed.
     
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  18. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    Just looking in here again... sadly I for one will not be engaging with you on this SH.....

    No doubt you will make some denigrating remark about this... but comments laced with terms such as 'you must be in a minority of one' 'tiny minority parties.... nobody has heard of'' 'crowing' 'dave boy' etc etc. give me no hope for any meaningful constructive dialogue with you SH about the most significant political event in the UK in our lifetimes....
     
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  19. hornethologist a.k.a. theo

    hornethologist a.k.a. theo Well-Known Member

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    I don't doubt it, it does introduce clauses of concession.
     
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  20. Bolton's Boots

    Bolton's Boots Well-Known Member

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    #3120
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